[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

So the question is, how does one define ‘good’ and ‘bad’. Is the goal is to attract new fans, I would say it’s good. If the goal is to preserve what is great about the game, I would say it’s bad.  I’m not losing sleep over it but I don’t care for it. As I get older, I do tend to shout at the clouds more often but I’ve felt this way since it became a thing.

How does the 16th hole attract new fans?  Do people tuning in to the event say to themselves that even though they thought the game was too hard or expensive or time consuming since all those drunk people yelled and threw debris then they should give the game a try?
 
I don't get golf's obsession with wooing people who are antithetical to the game.

Bravo..with you 100%

[Steve Lang]

  In comparison it makes the old spectacle of Flying Octopuses on Ice look relatively classy at a Red Wings game!

[JohnVDB]

If the PGA Tour wants eyeballs, they definitely got them.  Both aces were the #1 Play of the Day on ESPNs Sports Center with Sunday’s topping any of the Super Bowl plays.  While many aces make the too 10 list, I can’t remember the last time made #1,let alone happening two days in a row.  i think the crowd reaction is what pushed them to the top.

[Kalen Braley]

If the PGA Tour wants eyeballs, they definitely got them.  Both aces were the #1 Play of the Day on ESPNs Sports Center with Sunday’s topping any of the Super Bowl plays.  While many aces make the too 10 list, I can’t remember the last time made #1,let alone happening two days in a row.  i think the crowd reaction is what pushed them to the top.

John,

I understand your point. 

However for example when that condo building collapsed in Florida, it also made #1 on the news....for days on end to boot. People are always gonna tune in to see bad stuff happening, you just don't expect it to be celebrated and glorified...

P.S.  All these years later, who doesn't still remember the Joe Theisman leg snap like it happened yesterday.  They played the replay what 20-30 times during the broadcast. and countless times on newscasts after that.

[Mike Wagner]

Did you see the players complaining? Or really anyone? 

Mike, what player is going to say ANYTHING negative about it and then face down that crowd or social media or both?...who from CBS/Tour is going to say anything about their Tour property...Halitosis and Knoxtworst were like climaxing on Saturday... you can "hear" between the lines what Faldo and IBF think about it


And Mike, if you've read this thread, myself among others have addressed the creep of this "licentiousness" and "rowdy hype" at other venues and in other contexts...Ryder Cup gorilla cage...Bethpage catcallers...Brooksy/BDC...Kuchar and his caddie...Reed and opinions on his integrity... just because ten gallons of beer and 5000 vessels don't litter those incidents, doesn't de-couple it from what's been building exponentially in Phoenix, not just with the Tour's blind eye. but with their intent. 


Despite several posts and PMs, I don't really give two shits about it, but my interest is in that's it's at all  "debatable" among some of you...that this is not anywhere in the universe of elite golf's DNA as we knew it.


People (perhaps you're one of them) retort that it's a limited thing that ought to be embraced as singular...because golf is somehow lacking it... but I can find this (like others remind us is a virtue that golf deserves) at any of 90 other cultural events...Jerry Springer... Vols games...the Palestra's first basket...and on and on and on... there's no shortage of them and it's the height of petulant indifference to say there's not something really wrong and potentially disfiguring to the way most ardent and genuine golf supporters take their entertainment.

[/size][size=78%]Happen to see Phil’s comments recently? Charlie Hoffman’s? They’re not afraid to address something they don’t like.[/size]

[Tim Martin]

Did you see the players complaining? Or really anyone? 

Mike, what player is going to say ANYTHING negative about it and then face down that crowd or social media or both?...who from CBS/Tour is going to say anything about their Tour property...Halitosis and Knoxtworst were like climaxing on Saturday... you can "hear" between the lines what Faldo and IBF think about it


And Mike, if you've read this thread, myself among others have addressed the creep of this "licentiousness" and "rowdy hype" at other venues and in other contexts...Ryder Cup gorilla cage...Bethpage catcallers...Brooksy/BDC...Kuchar and his caddie...Reed and opinions on his integrity... just because ten gallons of beer and 5000 vessels don't litter those incidents, doesn't de-couple it from what's been building exponentially in Phoenix, not just with the Tour's blind eye. but with their intent. 


Despite several posts and PMs, I don't really give two shits about it, but my interest is in that's it's at all  "debatable" among some of you...that this is not anywhere in the universe of elite golf's DNA as we knew it.


People (perhaps you're one of them) retort that it's a limited thing that ought to be embraced as singular...because golf is somehow lacking it... but I can find this (like others remind us is a virtue that golf deserves) at any of 90 other cultural events...Jerry Springer... Vols games...the Palestra's first basket...and on and on and on... there's no shortage of them and it's the height of petulant indifference to say there's not something really wrong and potentially disfiguring to the way most ardent and genuine golf supporters take their entertainment.

[size=78%]Happen to see Phil’s comments recently? Charlie Hoffman’s? They’re not afraid to address something they don’t like.[/size]

Did they say anything about the 16th hole situation? If so I missed it.   Apples to oranges.

[JESII]

How does this crew feel about the now custom on the women's tour of dousing a winner in champagne, beer, water as they walk off the last green? Could they be to blame for the mess in Scottsdale?

[Jim_Coleman]

  One’s view of this is primarily generational. I’m not a fan of music on the course, hats on backwards, or shirttails untucked, but I’m told I’m a fuddy duddy.

[jeffwarne]

 
I don't get golf's obsession with wooing people who are antithetical to the game.

 If you love something and you hear the ruling body say they need to grow it, the hair should stand up on your arms. The proposed solutions are usually to dumb things down for the masses.

I've been saying this for years.(we entered our first "make golf cool stage" in the late 90's))
Rather than grow the game, let's nurture it.


OT-for Kalen-the biggest beer parties of my underage youth were on the 16th hole at Augusta, a scene that has changed drastically due to who now uses the tickets and a crackdown on decorum/beer sale limits.

[Tim Martin]

https://www.si.com/golf/news/2022-wm-phoenix-open-16th-hole-beer-cans

[Niall C]

"The answer should be no and while nets and plastic cups sound great, the real answer lies in control and moderation."

Actually it doesn't sound great, it just sounds as though they have given in to loutish behaviour.

Niall

[MCirba]

Guess we'll soon see if this behavior is limited to Phoenix

[SL_Solow]

First, this has little to do about architecture.  Second, the Phoenix tournament has the largest crowds of any on tour.  Part of the reason is that the course is designed to accommodate large numbers (architecture) and the remainder is due to the erection of mini-stadiums.  The result from the tour's point of view is income, both for the tour and for the charities supported by the tourney.  I suspect very little thought is given to whether it is "good for the game" or whether it "grows the game".  Platitudes, particularly at a time when the proposed Saudi tour is threatening.

[JESII]

Is there anyone that thinks TopGolf is good for golf and this is not?


As a fuddy duddy myself, I really can't distinguish what someone would see in one that they don't see in the other.


That said, I'm not suggesting either are bad for the game...just that they are ancillary to it and very successful at their primary objectives.

[Jeff Evagues]

Does anyone really think they are going to limit beer sales at $12 a bottle or whatever they charge?

[John Kirk]

https://www.si.com/golf/news/2022-wm-phoenix-open-16th-hole-beer-cans

Sort of a "Bob's Country Bunker in the Blues Brothers" concept?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdR6MN2jKYs

[Steve Salmen]

Since they put the stadium up, my understanding is that tickets are around $1,000 for the day. 


I think I'd rather take the grand and 3 good friends and play a nice course in the area and have plenty left over for a good dinner.

[JESII]

Is it $1,000 all you can drink?

[Jim_Coleman]

   I don’t know what a stadium seat costs, but I understand it costs almost nothing to get into the tournament. That, coupled with amazing promoting by the Thunderbirds, explains getting 200,000 +/- per day on the premises.

[Dave Givnish]

Cost to enter as a General Admit - about $75 this year - the people in those bleachers behind and right of the green came in that way.


Suite tickets - closer to $500/person/day


"Unlimited" drinks - sort of. You get a wrist band with an RFID tag as your ticket. That is supposed to be scanned for every drink. The limit was 10 drinks per wrist band a couple of years ago. But, of course, there are always around limits like that.

[Jim_Coleman]

Dave: Is that $75 per day, or for the week? If it’s per day, that’s really impressive support.

[Jeff Evagues]

Dave: Is that $75 per day, or for the week? If it’s per day, that’s really impressive support.

Tickets were on sale at local golf shops for $65 a day.

[Kalen Braley]

Well that didn't take long to "one-up"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9RJaVJwQY8

Guess the Scottsdale crowd needs to step their game up now..

[John Kavanaugh]

That was the second most disappointing 3 minutes of my life. I could have been watching the finish of the Crawdad tag team championship.

[Thomas Dai]

Bumping this thread as this event is currently being played.
Thoughts?

Atb

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