'Stadium' par-3 16th at TPC Scottsdale - good or bad？

[Tim Martin]

Actually, the only thing I watched this week of the tournament was a Twitter replay of yesterday's hole-in-one shitshow, Don.


This was golf spectating like Jan 6th, 2021 was normal civil discourse.

I flipped it on at 5:00 today for the first time before the Super Bowl. The golf was compelling to watch down the stretch but the antics on 16 are junior varsity. The idea that people should look the other way because of the charity component is absurd. Every PGA tournament raises piles of money for charity.

[V. Kmetz]

Mike - lousy false equivalency. I’ll get hit by a streamer you can volunteer for the beer can.

I'm Irish with good hands. I would scoop it up and drink it, the beer not the ball!!

Great job Mike... three (edit) four straight posts without your usual virtue-signaling tropes of veterans or autism...must be some sort of personal record for you. 

[Mike Sweeney]

Great job Mike... three (edit) four straight posts without your usual virtue-signaling tropes of veterans or autism...must be some sort of personal record for you.

Victor,



We are all hoping (God forbid I say praying) for you to crack the code here in 2022 - https://golfclubatlas.com/contributions/

[V. Kmetz]

Great job Mike... three (edit) four straight posts without your usual virtue-signaling tropes of veterans or autism...must be some sort of personal record for you.

Victor,

We are all hoping (God forbid I say praying) for you to crack the code here in 2022 - https://golfclubatlas.com/contributions/

I'll take it from Ran, but you?  In any event, I gave what might have gone to this site to those repatriated circus animals that Uncle Jerry was all "about"

[MCirba]

If you were to take a poll, the Philadelphia Eagles fans probably have the worst reputation in professional sports.


But never in their wildest moments could I ever imagine them throwing full and half full bottles and cans en masse as happened at the Self-Entitlement Fest in Phoenix this weekend.


Was anyone out there comfortable with their kids or grandkids watching?

[Mike Wagner]

I’m all for spectators enjoying the experience and in this case easing the decorum. That said people dousing others with beer and throwing bottles, cans, and assorted debris on the tee is a fail. If you throw empty beer cans onto the floor or field at an NBA, NFL or MLB game and get caught there’s a pretty good chance you are going to get tossed. By glorifying it to the extent they have it’s gotten out of control.

Tim,

Thanks for bringing this up.  Fans in basically every other sport are not only booted but often have thier season tickets revoked and/or lifetime bans for this type of behavior.  Still baffled at how this is deemed acceptable on any level.

If you look at the history of this tournament with the next over the top thing, the escalations for better...and worse...will undoubtedly continue, especially with the CBS broadcast team rewarding this behavior.

P.S.  Mike if The Thunderbirds are OK with this type of stuff, there are certainly plenty of worthy organizations out there to engage.  I hope they do the right thing on this.

Not true. When this happens in other sports, it's usually because fans DIDN'T like something and they threw things in protest. This is a celebration ... everyone involved unified. Did you see the players complaining? Or really anyone?  Look, it's the absolute pinnacle of the shit show at the biggest party in the world, and you're gonna get all Debbie Downer on it? An exceptionally nice circumstance at an exceptionally unique venue .. we all know what it's about. Quite frankly, the excessive boos are more offensive than what happened after the ace.

[Mike Hendren]

What a bunch of lightweights!

These spectators were mere amateurs.  Not a single golf ball or mustard bottle like we tossed at Neyland Stadium in Knoxville last fall in the Ole Miss game.     

I thought the whole episode was an absolute blast.  Easy solution next year, serve draft beer in red solo cups.  Sell cheap-plastic logo'd hard hats. 

Cirbs, apparently you haven't watched television in decades. 

And nobody wants to get drunk and get loud.
And all my rowdy friends have settled down.
- Hank Jr.

Living for the weekend
Cause that's when I party down.
  - The O-Jays

These are the good old days.
  -Carly Simon

Hey bud, let's party!
  - Jeff Spicoli

Party on Wayne.
  -Garth

Bogey
VFL

[Brad Lawrence]

So the question is, how does one define ‘good’ and ‘bad’. Is the goal is to attract new fans, I would say it’s good. If the goal is to preserve what is great about the game, I would say it’s bad.  I’m not losing sleep over it but I don’t care for it. As I get older, I do tend to shout at the clouds more often but I’ve felt this way since it became a thing.

[David Kelly]

So the question is, how does one define ‘good’ and ‘bad’. Is the goal is to attract new fans, I would say it’s good. If the goal is to preserve what is great about the game, I would say it’s bad.  I’m not losing sleep over it but I don’t care for it. As I get older, I do tend to shout at the clouds more often but I’ve felt this way since it became a thing.

How does the 16th hole attract new fans?  Do people tuning in to the event say to themselves that even though they thought the game was too hard or expensive or time consuming since all those drunk people yelled and threw debris then they should give the game a try?
 
I don't get golf's obsession with wooing people who are antithetical to the game.

[V. Kmetz]

Did you see the players complaining? Or really anyone? 

Mike, what player is going to say ANYTHING negative about it and then face down that crowd or social media or both?...who from CBS/Tour is going to say anything about their Tour property...Halitosis and Knoxtworst were like climaxing on Saturday... you can "hear" between the lines what Faldo and IBF think about it


And Mike, if you've read this thread, myself among others have addressed the creep of this "licentiousness" and "rowdy hype" at other venues and in other contexts...Ryder Cup gorilla cage...Bethpage catcallers...Brooksy/BDC...Kuchar and his caddie...Reed and opinions on his integrity... just because ten gallons of beer and 5000 vessels don't litter those incidents, doesn't de-couple it from what's been building exponentially in Phoenix, not just with the Tour's blind eye. but with their intent. 


Despite several posts and PMs, I don't really give two shits about it, but my interest is in that's it's at all  "debatable" among some of you...that this is not anywhere in the universe of elite golf's DNA as we knew it.


People (perhaps you're one of them) retort that it's a limited thing that ought to be embraced as singular...because golf is somehow lacking it... but I can find this (like others remind us is a virtue that golf deserves) at any of 90 other cultural events...Jerry Springer... Vols games...the Palestra's first basket...and on and on and on... there's no shortage of them and it's the height of petulant indifference to say there's not something really wrong and potentially disfiguring to the way most ardent and genuine golf supporters take their entertainment.

[Kalen Braley]

So if a beer can hits you in "celebration" then somehow its OK, as happened to Carlos Ortiz after his HIO?

And it almost cost Cantalay a spot in the playoff after his first putt on 16 hit a large indentation in the green from a beer can that left his first putt way short that he thankfully made for par.

The bar has obviously been set low...just didn't expect so many to be fine with it. Can't wait till next year when they install 30 foot netting around the green and tee for liability purposes...cause heaven forbid idiots can't be expected to not hurl dangerous objects.

P.S.  Next GCA event I propose a beer can throwing contest at those who condone this.  Line up and let the others chuck mostly full beers can at you from an elevated position a few dozen feet away.  Its not trivial.

[Tim Martin]

I’m all for spectators enjoying the experience and in this case easing the decorum. That said people dousing others with beer and throwing bottles, cans, and assorted debris on the tee is a fail. If you throw empty beer cans onto the floor or field at an NBA, NFL or MLB game and get caught there’s a pretty good chance you are going to get tossed. By glorifying it to the extent they have it’s gotten out of control.

Tim,

Thanks for bringing this up.  Fans in basically every other sport are not only booted but often have thier season tickets revoked and/or lifetime bans for this type of behavior.  Still baffled at how this is deemed acceptable on any level.

If you look at the history of this tournament with the next over the top thing, the escalations for better...and worse...will undoubtedly continue, especially with the CBS broadcast team rewarding this behavior.

P.S.  Mike if The Thunderbirds are OK with this type of stuff, there are certainly plenty of worthy organizations out there to engage.  I hope they do the right thing on this.

Look, it's the absolute pinnacle of the shit show at the biggest party in the world

It’s more like a second rate after hours frat party. I would rather get a root canal in a third world country.

[Mike Wagner]

So if a beer can hits you in "celebration" then somehow its OK, as happened to Carlos Ortiz after his HIO?

And it almost cost Cantalay a spot in the playoff after his first putt on 16 hit a large indentation in the green from a beer can that left his first putt way short that he thankfully made for par.

The bar has obviously been set low...just didn't expect so many to be fine with it. Can't wait till next year when they install 30 foot netting around the green and tee for liability purposes...cause heaven forbid idiots can't be expected to not hurl dangerous objects.

P.S.  Next GCA event I propose a beer can throwing contest at those who condone this.  Line up and let the others chuck mostly full beers can at you from an elevated position a few dozen feet away.  Its not trivial.

Is Carlos suing?

[Niall C]

For the record I haven't watched any of this for the simple reason I don't subscribe to the channel showing it. However judging by the comments on here how can the antics described be any way good for the game ? Someone referred to the monkey see monkey do scenario and that is exactly the issue. This sort of stuff gets normalised and before you know it is happening all round the course and worse still leads to yobbish behaviour in the amateur game. Personally that's not what I want to see.


Niall

[jeffwarne]

Saturday's reaction was spontaneous,a bit over the top and probably surprised a few organizers, players  etc., who no doubt breathed a sigh of relief no one was hurt etc.(except a few here evidently)



Sundays repeated antics jumped the shark and crossed a line for most, if not all. My guess is there will be a change going forward.

[Kalen Braley]

So if a beer can hits you in "celebration" then somehow its OK, as happened to Carlos Ortiz after his HIO?

And it almost cost Cantalay a spot in the playoff after his first putt on 16 hit a large indentation in the green from a beer can that left his first putt way short that he thankfully made for par.

The bar has obviously been set low...just didn't expect so many to be fine with it. Can't wait till next year when they install 30 foot netting around the green and tee for liability purposes...cause heaven forbid idiots can't be expected to not hurl dangerous objects.

P.S.  Next GCA event I propose a beer can throwing contest at those who condone this.  Line up and let the others chuck mostly full beers can at you from an elevated position a few dozen feet away.  Its not trivial.

Is Carlos suing?

Someone has to sue to change what was obviously a dicey scenario that could have gone sideways very quickly? My god is that where we're at now as a society?

P.S. I had a friend who got hit with a beer can square in his noodle in my younger years.  He really should have gone to the hospital and thankfully was OK.. but you know doing stoopid stuff as a teenager, at least was a plausible explanation.  But for full grown adults, who seemingly should know better...once again I just don't get it.

[MCirba]

Kalen,

It's all about their "rights" to do whatever they damn well please and f your feelings.   Wow, how far we've fallen.

[Mike Bodo]

To me, there's no place in the game of golf for the kind of crowd behavior exhibited at the Waste Management tournament. The craziness on the 16th hole has always been over the top, but the beer and trash throwing this year took it to an entirely other ugly level. If the PGA Tour wants more of a WWE atmosphere at its events because that's what draws eyeballs to the sport, then where is the line drawn as far as what is acceptable and unacceptable fan behavior? Also, is this the type of conduct we want permitted at the courses we play? I'm seeing more this type of behavior exhibited on a lot of public courses - many of them high priced resort courses where guys feel they have the right to get drunk, shout obscenities and trash golf carts (not to mention the course) as part of the price of admission. Is this what we want the game to devolve to?


The crowds and galleries at Riviera this week will be every bit as loud and boisterous as those at Waste Management. However, the difference is they will do so in deference to the players and in-keeping with the etiquette of the game. The Waste Management has become more a side show than an actual golf tournament and I blame the tournament organizers and PGA Tour for allowing it to become the three-ring circus it has.

[Brian_Ewen]

The solution can be found at 'Bob's Country Bunker'

[Kalen Braley]

Mike B,

You bring up a good point.  I think many of us are just advocating a spirited middle ground as opposed to the polarized viewpoints that infect our society at nearly every turn.  Hell I've been far more critical of the Green Jackets and the demands of reverence and hushed tones for their fans...err patrons. And for having such pedantic rules like no lying down in a quiet spot for a rest, or lying reclined to watch the action on 6, or taking off your shoes, or running, or god knows what else...

P.S.  Comparing the WM louts  to WWE or MMA or NASCAR fans, is an insult to the latter group, because you can't chuck stuff on those playing surfaces either without being tossed, much less glorified for it.

[Ted Sturges]

 
I don't get golf's obsession with wooing people who are antithetical to the game.

+1

[Mike Bodo]

P.S.  Comparing the WM louts  to WWE or MMA or NASCAR fans, is an insult to the latter group, because you can't chuck stuff on those playing surfaces either without being tossed, much less glorified for it.

+1. I was going to add in my initial post that WWE fans are better behaved and at least don't throw objects or partially full cans beer at the wrestlers (performers).

[Brad Lawrence]

.
“Comparing the WM louts  to WWE or MMA or NASCAR fans, is an insult to the latter group, because you can't chuck stuff on those playing surfaces either without being tossed, much less glorified for it.”


I’ve been to many live sporting events through the years, including about 80 NASCAR races.  For the most part, it’s an incredibly friendly and fun group of people. NFL and NBA on the other hand? Not so much.

[Brad Lawrence]

 
I don't get golf's obsession with wooing people who are antithetical to the game.

+1

You don’t like it, or don’t understand motive?  Everybody needs new customers. The question is can you make changes to attract new fans without alienating the fan base you already have?  The answer is often no. If you love something and you hear the ruling body say they need to grow it, the hair should stand up on your arms. The proposed solutions are usually to dumb things down for the masses.

[Mike Hendren]

The solution can be found at 'Bob's Country Bunker'

Where they play both kinds of music - country and western.  Post of the year, Brian.  Well done.  If the Hillbilly Tour was not defunct you would earn a battle-field membership.  [size=78%]  [/size]


Bogey