'Stadium' par-3 16th at TPC Scottsdale - good or bad？

[Thomas Dai]

Are you or have you been watching the WM Open from TPC Scottsdale?


Do you reckon the 'stadium' around the par-3 16th hole is good or bad?


Would you like to play the hole under these circumstances or would you avoid it like the plague?


Do you consider this kind of feature at a pro-tour event good or bad for golf?


If you like it, which pro-tour events would you like to see incorporate such a stadium feature at one (or more) holes and which hole(s)?


Atb

[Marty Bonnar]

Dai,
If you'd asked me this question ten years ago, I'd have mocked and scoffed at the whole idea.
Now, I think it's a marvellous opportunity to expose golf to the millenniums.
I think we've forgotten that pro golfers are meant to be entertainers. They hit balls with sticks for our pleasure. They are the gladiators, the clowns, the court jesters of our society.
Let the other 51 weeks be played in solemn silence. Different is good.
Just don't speak in my backswing!!!
Cheers,
M.

[Kalen Braley]

I'd say other than Pat Burke....

none of us will have this problem!!   

Pat, the floor is now yours to chime in !

[Michael Graham]

This is from the PGA Tour's Twitter feed a couple of days ago.

Whatever people think of the 16th it's certainly proving popular.

1995


2015

[Marty Bonnar]

Crikey!
I think Bubba's attire is way more offensive than any crowd misbehaviour.
I'd wear it though...

F

[Kalen Braley]

Like yesterday...awesome stuff!!

That green probably needed some extra fluid on it anyways...watch the video!

http://www.pga.com/news/golf-buzz/robot-named-eldrick-aces-16th-hole-tpc-scottsdale

[Dave McCollum]

Hardly new that golf is used as a drinking event.  Nor is it surprising some of our UK brothers understand this.  They perfected the concept of watching sport while relaxed and in a good mood.  Does anyone watch in person the Oxford-Cambridge crews race without pop or two?  I'm way too old to enjoy a Frat party, but see no harm for those that do. 

Confession:  I spent 20 minutes talking to a Golf Board rep today.  Not personally interested, just a full parking lot guy and, for the most part, favor inclusiveness for our chosen recreation.  Twice a year, early Spring and late Fall when the weather is iffy, we do a disc golf event which, BTW, is not compatible with real golf, but generates comparable revenues for the course and bar.     

[Ronald Montesano]

Absolutely would love to play it with the fans and the stands. Take the stand up ten stories and let them wave foam fingers at me.


For the Ted Knights in the group who ask "Don't you have homes?" take a laxative.

[Kalen Braley]

I'm making an early call now....

There will be hell to pay when one of those sections collapse as they build that monstrosity higher and higher each year and the fans get more rowdy and brazen...

[Matthew Essig]

I LOVE IT!

I'm making an early call now....

There will be hell to pay when one of those sections collapse as they build that monstrosity higher and higher each year and the fans get more rowdy and brazen...

At what point do they start making some of the stands permanent structures so the massive temporary structures don't face the risk of collapse?

[Marty Bonnar]

Stands are such a logical progression from containment mounding.
I'm thinking a roof might be the next big thing.

F.

[Jeff Bergeron]

Fantastic!

[Jason Topp]

I watched the final round of the first Phoenix Open at the course from a relatively small mound behind the 16th tee in 1987.  It was a good spot because you could see play on 12 and 13, the 2nd shots on in on 15 and all of 16.  I believe my friend and I were the only people camped on that spot.  It seemed like a pretty pedestrian hole at the time sandwiched in between some very entertaining holes.

I saw Paul Azinger make a putt for eagle on 15 (I had never heard of him) and then followed him to victory at the clubhouse.  Some enterprising guy set up a television in the parking area and sold beer from a keg.  We watched the Super Bowl from there. I recall it being one of the years that the Broncos got blown out.   They announced some crazy attendance number that supposedly was calculated by counting parked cars and multiplying by four.  There were not very many people there.

I went back ten years ago and spent a day in a box on 16.  It was more like spending a day at the horse races than watching a golf tournament.  There were a bunch of bets on each group.  It is fun and contrary to all traditions associated with the game.  Nonetheless, I would rather spend a day there than try and fight the crowds at a Ryder Cup or a PGA Championship. The 16th hole seemed to change quite a bit between my two visits.  I do not think it had all the short grass around the green when it first opened.  In 1987, guys were going at the pin which was cut back left.  That shot would carry much more risk today.  17 seemed to play about the same as it does now although I remember a number of players hitting an iron and laying back.  In contrast, the tee shot on 18 was intimidating back then.  Azinger used a Big Bertha to smoke a draw down the center of the fairway, clinching the win.  It seemed that the water saw a lot more action at that time. 

Was the 17th at TPC Scottsdale the first drivable par 4 used regularly in a tour event during that era?  Weiskopf and Morrish should get more credit than they do for that innovation.

[Bruce Katona]

I'm all in with FBD on this...let's make golf FUN, ENJOYABLE & FAN FRIENDLY (which usually requires fan participation) to grow interest in the game for the next group of customers/members.
 
Heaven knows the Blue Blazers @ the USGA haven't processed the message yet, they may be waiting for their executive assistants to reload the fax machine with paper.  Leave growing interest in the game to the USGA & they'll be vying with the US Tennis Association for who screwed up worse.

[Thomas Dai]

This stadium hole is a short-iron par-3.


Would the playing and spectating etc experience be 'enhanced', if that's the correct word, if the hole in question were a short, driveable risk-and-reward type par-4?


Atb

[Kalen Braley]

This stadium hole is a short-iron par-3.


Would the playing and spectating etc experience be 'enhanced', if that's the correct word, if the hole in question were a short, driveable risk-and-reward type par-4?


Atb

It wouldn't be hard to figure that part out....they'd only have to move their setup one hole away!!

P.S.  IMO I think part of the allure to the par 3 is the relative intimacy in how close everyone is to the action, and the fans really feed on each other.  If you tried to do this on a driveable par 4, you'd have to move the stands much further back from the line of the play and would lose this concept.

[Greg Chambers]

The experience at the 16th hole during the tourney is nothing short of fantastic.  It exposes tons of non golfers and golfers alike to the game in a fun and interactive way.  It is quite the spectacle, and I struggle to think of a sporting event I've attended that was more fun than spending a day in those stands.

As an aside...I was out at Riv earlier this week, and I couldn't believe the temporary structures they were erecting around the 18th green.  You wouldn't catch me dead spectating from one of those.

[Kalen Braley]

The crowd is now resorting to this.....cheering and booing while players are in thier swing.

http://www.sbnation.com/golf/2016/2/5/10923400/bubba-watson-heckled-phoenix-open-16th-hole

I'm no crony, but I don't think there's a place for this on the course, and in a few years if this scene continues on its current arc, something very unfortunate is going to happen.

[Josh Tarble]

The crowd is now resorting to this.....cheering and booing while players are in thier swing.

http://www.sbnation.com/golf/2016/2/5/10923400/bubba-watson-heckled-phoenix-open-16th-hole

I'm no crony, but I don't think there's a place for this on the course, and in a few years if this scene continues on its current arc, something very unfortunate is going to happen.

You seem like a bundle of fun, I'm sure you're a hit at all the parties.  You must have missed the last 10 years that they've been doing this.


These guys play for millions of dollars.  If they can't put up with heckling fans for 4 potential shots out of the entire year, maybe they should be accountants. 

[Kalen Braley]

The crowd is now resorting to this.....cheering and booing while players are in thier swing.

http://www.sbnation.com/golf/2016/2/5/10923400/bubba-watson-heckled-phoenix-open-16th-hole

I'm no crony, but I don't think there's a place for this on the course, and in a few years if this scene continues on its current arc, something very unfortunate is going to happen.

You seem like a bundle of fun, I'm sure you're a hit at all the parties.  You must have missed the last 10 years that they've been doing this.


These guys play for millions of dollars.  If they can't put up with heckling fans for 4 potential shots out of the entire year, maybe they should be accountants.

Josh,

I don't mind the criticism, personality rarely comes thru accurately in online forums...just ask Dan Kelly.

 Yes, they've been doing this a long time, but its only been the last few years that the stadium setup has completely engulfed the entire hole and changed it from a boisterous hole to a 5 ring circus complete with hijinks galore!  And every year it seems they feel the need to outdo the previous one.

Like the old sayin': Its all fun and games till someone gets their proverbial eye poked out.

P.S.  This seems to be an Arizona thing and not limited to the golf course.  Here's just a few.....

http://www.12news.com/story/news/local/valley/2015/09/28/video-shows-1-many-fights-during-cards-game-police-say/73007508/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWr5veCVCfs

http://www.tmz.com/2016/01/17/packers-cardinals-fight-stands/

[Josh Tarble]

Kalen,
I'm guessing you hate court storming during college basketball as well. 

You can find a bad apple anywhere you look.  Not sure how that's applicable to the most fun hole in golf.

[Ronald Montesano]

Would the playing and spectating etc experience be 'enhanced', if that's the correct word, if the hole in question were a short, driveable risk-and-reward type par-4?

It wouldn't be hard to figure that part out....they'd only have to move their setup one hole away!!

They have a new box around the approach to the 17th this year. Where there's a $$, there's a way.

[Kalen Braley]

Kalen,
I'm guessing you hate court storming during college basketball as well. 

You can find a bad apple anywhere you look.  Not sure how that's applicable to the most fun hole in golf.

Other than the fact its a bit overused by some students/schools.... doesn't get my dander up otherwise.

Storming the football field is even better, done that a few times..

[Wade Whitehead]

But does the white sand from the 20teens look better than the brown from the 90s?

WW

[Matthew Essig]

But does the white sand from the 20teens look better than the brown from the 90s?

WW

I like the lack of dormant rough around all the bunkers now, but I despise the new pure white sand. I don't understand the change of sand. As stated during today's broadcast, the bunker save % has become easier since the re-do.