Is this a well designed golf hole?

[Rick Emerson]

I am on vacation on the beach in Thailand right now and yesterday a played a little 9 hole course less than a kilometer away on spare land from a government work facility. It was stick 100 baht ($3) in the donation box and go play. One hole I really found interesting was a 498 yard par 5. It was a slightly tight fairway with a gully with rough right and OB all down the left. At 100 yards there was an almost 90 degree dogleg right. It was eminently reachable but if you bailed out right you had no view and some enormous trees to clear and some nasty waste with a second shot to get to the green. It was a very low percentage shot. Also, even a layup to the corner of the dogleg wasn't easy from the right side. This meant that the more you flirted with the OB left the easier the line of the second shot. You could also play the hole with a 4 iron down the middle a 6 iron to the dogleg and a pitching wedge. This would probably lead to the lowest scoring average for multiple plays. It seemed like a good strategic hole for a short 5. What do you think?

[Kalen Braley]

I played a hole with similar attributes at a course in Spokane.

Based on what you describe it sounds more penal than strategic to me:
-- trouble right
-- Bigger trouble left
-- 90 degree dog leg with trees to clear if you're short
-- exacting layup required
-- makes one plays shorter clubs.

[jeffwarne]

Rick,
I'm guessing you put more thought into the hole in that one paragraph than the original architect put into the entire process of building the hole.


and to your answer your question, for $3, it's a fantastic hole!

[Dwight Phelps]

The first hole this description made me think of was #11 at the Babe course at Industry Hills (CA), which is similar but doglegs to the left.  I don't think I've ever heard that course discussed as representative of good architecture, so, to answer the question posed in the thread title: No.

[MCirba]

Who was the architect?   

[Rick Emerson]

Kalen, I wouldn't say it was trouble right. It was a gully with light rough. To me it did seem strategic because you could bail out over there off the tee leaving a much more difficult lay up, or have an incredibly low percentage go at the green or you can flirt with the hazard (OB) left to leave yourself a an easy lay up or an easier angle to go for the green. I didn't feel it was penal.
I think it was a happy accident because it was the only par 5 and the whole course was just shoehorned in on a tiny piece of land.
The course had tons of silliness with occasional genius. This first fairway doubled as the driving range. It had two lakes used only to make a forced carry off the tee. It also had no irrigation resulting in fun firm fast conditions because here was as much dirt as grass. Greens were give yourself a two putt and move on.
But it also had a 100 yard par 3 that could have passed for a MacRaynor short hole. And the 9th was a 400 yard hole with one lone tree in the middle of the fairway. Right of tree was safer but then required a high shot or fade second with obstructed view. Left of tree left a straightforward shot but once again flirted with OB. The bunkers were also deep and small with a mixture of sand and grass that made them true hazards to be avoided. It was more fun than should be allowed for $3 and I've been golf starved from winter. What's funny is tommorrow I catch a flight to Melbourne to play the great sand belt courses. What a difference a few days makes.

[Kalen Braley]

Kalen, I wouldn't say it was trouble right. It was a gully with light rough. To me it did seem strategic because you could bail out over there off the tee leaving a much more difficult lay up, or have an incredibly low percentage go at the green or you can flirt with the hazard (OB) left to leave yourself a an easy lay up or an easier angle to go for the green. I didn't feel it was penal.
I think it was a happy accident because it was the only par 5 and the whole course was just shoehorned in on a tiny piece of land.
The course had tons of silliness with occasional genius. This first fairway doubled as the driving range. It had two lakes used only to make a forced carry off the tee. It also had no irrigation resulting in fun firm fast conditions because here was as much dirt as grass. Greens were give yourself a two putt and move on.
But it also had a 100 yard par 3 that could have passed for a MacRaynor short hole. And the 9th was a 400 yard hole with one lone tree in the middle of the fairway. Right of tree was safer but then required a high shot or fade second with obstructed view. Left of tree left a straightforward shot but once again flirted with OB. The bunkers were also deep and small with a mixture of sand and grass that made them true hazards to be avoided. It was more fun than should be allowed for $3 and I've been golf starved from winter. What's funny is tommorrow I catch a flight to Melbourne to play the great sand belt courses. What a difference a few days makes.

That makes sense Rick.  Gullies out West and especially here in Utah usually means its in a steep rocky area where playability is impossible most of the time even if you could find it.  But a grass covered low area could be doable.

I still don't like the component of having to get to the elbow of the fairway to have a shot at the green.  The hole I was referring to in Spokane was kinda nasty that way.  You could be 150 yards away from the green, in the middle of the fairway and absolutely no shot into the green because the pine trees are too tall and thick to go over or thru.  So often times you had to chip 50 yards up the left side of the fairway and then have another 100 yard wedge approach in...it was goofy to say the least.

[MCirba]

Rick,

What was the name of the course?  I love the sound of it and expect to get to Thailand in the next few years.  Thanks for any particulars.

[Rick Emerson]

Rick,

What was the name of the course?  I love the sound of it and expect to get to Thailand in the next few years.  Thanks for any particulars.

I wouldn't put it on your list unless you just happened to be there. The greens were basically unputtable. It is called DPM Golf Club. 9 holes, 2650 yards, par 34.

[Garland Bayley]

...
and to your answer your question, for $3, it's a fantastic hole!

I like the way you think!