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Sean Ogle

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Question About Design Characteristic of Streamsong Blue #7
« Reply #50 on: February 05, 2016, 11:51:23 AM »
* I would prefer for the shots not to all end up in the exact same spot, as I prefer more varied outcomes when it comes to greenside recoveries. I'd also prefer for them not to end up unplayable (though I'm unsure why they were based on the photos, and maybe Sean could explain further). It sounds like this isn't your design intent though, and more of a maintenance function.



Sorry for going MIA on this thread guys, been a busy week.


Yes, the balls were far from great shots, and the ended up kind of in a hole next to a vertical face of sorts - so there was really no way to get the ball back into play. Again tough to see in the photo, and frankly it's been a couple weeks now so I don't remember exactly why they were unplayable, but we all agreed very quickly to pull them out.


Also I appreciate all the thoughts and conversation, it's helped me look at the hole in a few different ways I didn't think about before, and also been a good exercise in bumping up my design IQ - so I appreciate everything said from both perspectives.

Joe Lane

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Question About Design Characteristic of Streamsong Blue #7
« Reply #51 on: February 05, 2016, 04:28:17 PM »
Hi Jason & Jeff (and all),
[/size]
[/size]Jason, I understand you are not attempting to be a troll (entirely  :) ), but I am afraid that I simply haven’t seen a recognition of the point that I have been trying to make, which is that the “problem” of #7 Streamsong is simply not a matter of construction, but rather in the space that Jones said was the most important six inches in golf: between the player’s ears. I certainly respect the fact that you may disagree with the argument, and there are definitely principled ways to counter what I am saying, but my sense is that you are talking past what I’m saying instead of addressing it. Maybe I’m missing something.
[/size]
[/size]Jeff: I think your position is somewhat similar to Jason’s, although not as combative. Essentially, what I am saying is that all the earth-moving in the world will not “fix” the hole, [/size]because there is nothing to fix[/size]. If there is a “problem,” it exists entirely within the brains of the players, not in the Florida turf—a point that I think you allude to when you mention elsewhere that your son and others you know would rather play in Scottsdale than Scotland. What I am saying then is that the entire issue is better addressed with a word processor and an Internet link than with a bulldozer or a shovel. Again, I respect that you may disagree, but I do think that you should address what I’m actually saying.
[/size]
[/size]Is this helpful?
[/size]
[/size]Joe

Bryan Izatt

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Question About Design Characteristic of Streamsong Blue #7
« Reply #52 on: March 03, 2016, 12:18:18 PM »
I was at Streamsong Blue on Monday and Tuesday and paid particular attention to #7 since the pin was cut in the front left bowl on Monday.







My shot was in the upper right side and there was no problem putting down to this pin.  Conceivably you could overcook the putt and putt off the green.  The guy I was playing with hit a high cut that landed on the bank surrounding the front bowl and the ball trickled down into the bowl, no problem.  I suppose that if he had been a really high spin player, he might have sucked it off the green, but how many retail players there could do that.


The bank in front of the green is still pretty bare and provides no rolling resistance.  The weeds near the pond did prevent a ball I threw down from running into the water, but would have provided a tough lie inside the hazard line. 







The saddle where the the water funnels off the green is maybe a yard or two wide where the sand top dressing is visible near the edge of the green.  Given that small area of run off, it would not be surprising that ball would congregate in a small area.  That area is near the dark area to the left of the red hazard stake.  The dark spot is in fact a small washout where most of the runoff goes.







From the pictures it may look like the ball will funnel to the base of the bridge, but they don't.







I, for one, don't think that there is really much need for a fix here.  Arguably all the greens at the Blue are severe and the 7th is in keeping with that ethos.  I've played the course more than a dozen times and never had the ball run off in that area, so it's not impossible to keep the ball on the green.  I'd hate to see some significant alteration to the front of the green to accommodate those that hit a poor shot that runs off. 


By the way, kudos to Kyle and the gang, the greens were as firm and fast and true as any I've played in a long time.  The 10th had some resodding at the front edge by the bunker but that's not really in play.


On two perfect warm windless days in prime season, there was not more than 35 cars in the lot at mid day.  No doubt there were some players transported from the hotel, but it was surprisingly quiet.  Maybe the $255 ++ green fee and $145 replay rate are tamping down play a bit?  For us poor Canadians and our sickly loonie, two days of thirty-six hole walking with no caddie would have set me back about $1200 CDN.  But since I can't walk 36 a day any more it didn't end up that much - although it is still very pricey.


From afar, there appears to be a lot of earth moving still going on on the Black, although I did see that the irrigation must be in as they appeared to be watering a good section of it south of #2 Red.






Tim_Weiman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Question About Design Characteristic of Streamsong Blue #7
« Reply #53 on: March 03, 2016, 01:26:34 PM »
I was at Streamsong Blue on Monday and Tuesday and paid particular attention to #7 since the pin was cut in the front left bowl on Monday.







My shot was in the upper right side and there was no problem putting down to this pin.  Conceivably you could overcook the putt and putt off the green.  The guy I was playing with hit a high cut that landed on the bank surrounding the front bowl and the ball trickled down into the bowl, no problem.  I suppose that if he had been a really high spin player, he might have sucked it off the green, but how many retail players there could do that.


The bank in front of the green is still pretty bare and provides no rolling resistance.  The weeds near the pond did prevent a ball I threw down from running into the water, but would have provided a tough lie inside the hazard line. 







The saddle where the the water funnels off the green is maybe a yard or two wide where the sand top dressing is visible near the edge of the green.  Given that small area of run off, it would not be surprising that ball would congregate in a small area.  That area is near the dark area to the left of the red hazard stake.  The dark spot is in fact a small washout where most of the runoff goes.







From the pictures it may look like the ball will funnel to the base of the bridge, but they don't.







I, for one, don't think that there is really much need for a fix here.  Arguably all the greens at the Blue are severe and the 7th is in keeping with that ethos.  I've played the course more than a dozen times and never had the ball run off in that area, so it's not impossible to keep the ball on the green.  I'd hate to see some significant alteration to the front of the green to accommodate those that hit a poor shot that runs off. 


By the way, kudos to Kyle and the gang, the greens were as firm and fast and true as any I've played in a long time.  The 10th had some resodding at the front edge by the bunker but that's not really in play.


On two perfect warm windless days in prime season, there was not more than 35 cars in the lot at mid day.  No doubt there were some players transported from the hotel, but it was surprisingly quiet.  Maybe the $255 ++ green fee and $145 replay rate are tamping down play a bit?  For us poor Canadians and our sickly loonie, two days of thirty-six hole walking with no caddie would have set me back about $1200 CDN.  But since I can't walk 36 a day any more it didn't end up that much - although it is still very pricey.


From afar, there appears to be a lot of earth moving still going on on the Black, although I did see that the irrigation must be in as they appeared to be watering a good section of it south of #2 Red.


Bryan,


Thanks for the pictures. I have only played the course twice, but based on that experience and your pictures don't really see a need for change.
Tim Weiman

Bryan Izatt

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Question About Design Characteristic of Streamsong Blue #7
« Reply #54 on: April 01, 2016, 11:42:54 AM »
On another visit yesterday, it looks like a fix is in progress.  New sod has been laid that I suspect they will let grow into rough to impede the run out of any balls trickling down this way.







There was another hazard added to the 7th on this day at least - a six foot gator no more than ten feet from the beginning of the bridge.  I swear that the critter winked at us as we edged by with putter at hand and ready to strike.





Of couse, the 10-footer sunbathing on the 8th hole was even more impressive and intimidating.  We gave this big boy a very wide detour. 





There were very few people out on the Blue on a perfect, albeit hot, afternoon.  We saw no one until we caught two groups on the 17th that had started an hour earlier than us.


The new Black course is starting to show signs of green from a distance.

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: Question About Design Characteristic of Streamsong Blue #7
« Reply #55 on: April 01, 2016, 12:43:24 PM »
Last year a friend of mine sent a picture of a good-sized alligator ON the bridge over by the tee side.  His group all gave each other their two-putt pars and moved on to #8 without going across.


The gator on #8 was a little guy when we were building the course, he used to go back and forth between the left pond and the right swamp with regularity.  The biggest gators were all in the pond right of #14 Blue.

Joe Bausch

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Question About Design Characteristic of Streamsong Blue #7
« Reply #56 on: April 01, 2016, 12:51:37 PM »
On my first visit to SS Kyle pointed out a large gator that only had 3 legs, presumably one lost in a fight with another gator.  I of course snarked:  here's the rare case if that tripod alligator is chasing you that you should run in a straight-line as he just keeps going in circles!
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: Question About Design Characteristic of Streamsong Blue #7
« Reply #57 on: April 01, 2016, 05:26:52 PM »
On my first visit to SS Kyle pointed out a large gator that only had 3 legs, presumably one lost in a fight with another gator. 


Typical of Florida, the gator that had a torn-off front left leg was nicknamed Tebow.

Ian Andrew

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Question About Design Characteristic of Streamsong Blue #7
« Reply #58 on: April 01, 2016, 05:56:41 PM »
Would you retrieve this ball on #14?




With every golf development bubble, the end was unexpected and brutal....

Jim Nugent

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Question About Design Characteristic of Streamsong Blue #7
« Reply #59 on: April 01, 2016, 06:31:26 PM »
Would you retrieve this ball on #14?






Don't have to: local rules allow for a free drop, within two club lengths of the ball's position. 

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Question About Design Characteristic of Streamsong Blue #7
« Reply #60 on: April 01, 2016, 07:27:05 PM »
Would you retrieve this ball on #14?






Don't have to: local rules allow for a free drop, within two club lengths of the ball's position.

Two club lengths?  Ha ha ha!  😜