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Adrian_Stiff

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I played the worst golf course ever yesterday.
« on: January 28, 2016, 10:42:18 AM »
I played golf yesterday and have been wanting to play El Chaparell for many years and nobody had ever told me it was not very good.


I was quite amazed that it has a good write up on thetop100 golf course site and is ranked 45th best course in Spain. Perhaps my opinion is totally screwed but I was thinking it might be a Doak zero, though it had a few decent holes so maybe a Doak 1.


El Chaparell was designed by Pepe Gancedo in the 90s and it went bankrupt until getting restored in 2006. I popped in when it was all being constructed but only really looked at what turned out to the best holes. I do not know how much is the original. The course is par 72 with the combo of six threes, fours and fives. It's an impressive entrance and the welcoming was without fault, €46 for the golf with a buggy is good value, the lady in the shop advised me buying a planner at €6 as it was our first round. I played with a 71 year old 21 handicapper who is pretty good off 21 having been as low as 12.


The first hole tee virtually had no grass on the tee at all and all of tees were the worst condition I have seen some grass was 4 inches long, repair work had been carried out that was significantly lower or higher than other parts of the tees. No one told us it was placing but you could not have played without it and the fairways had been oversown with rye and were an inch long sometimes a bit more. The greens had been bent grass at some stage but were patched and some halves had been resown at different stages. Most of the greens were two tiered some three tiered, many were only a few paces wide so only really had a metre or two down the middle section for pinning.


The course itself was exceptionally narrow and on several occasions you could be on the fairway and not have a shot to the green even if you are Bubba Watson. This started as early as the first which is a 350 yarder uphill  that unless you hit it in the exact spot you are stymied. Then faced with an uphill shot to a green where you can't see the bottom of the flag this happened on 10 occasions, of the 8 holes where you can see the bottom of the flag 5 of these are par threes.


The 2nd hole was a par 3 across a canyon to a huge green and a decent hole, the 3rd hole was a par 5 that after a good drive left me with two ponds about  140 to carry then another at 180 or I could hit a wedge short of the first one. I hit a good 7 wood straight at the second pond and thats where it went, dropped out pitched to the green which was 9 yards wide, the green had a vile cant on it such that an approach from the right would make it hard to keep the ball on the green. The 4th hole was slightly uphill and 203 yards it was impossible to easily spot where the flag was as the club had chosen to have black flags, after a minute or two we worked it out. The 5th was a shortish par 4 with a green where I took 4 putts, it is best not to go past the flag which was on 3 paces. We now come to the 6th hole which was as rancid as it can get the back tee was perched up like a volcano and from the tee we played the ladies tee obscure the view of the tee shot which although down hill was now totally blind. The hole was downhill all the way and not visible until the last 75 yards. A day or twos work with a D6 would have sorted the blindness


The 7th was another par 5 at 500 yards that doglegs at 425 yards about 70 degrees. Even worse what could have been a pleasant uphill drive they opted to leave a Gum tree in the middle of the fairway, that not only spoiled the view but was a great catcher for many tee shots. The 8th looked fantastic off the tee and would have been fantastic if it had been a par 3. We thought about out tee shots and both placed them at the angle of the dogleg ready for our second shots that when we got to our ball was obscured by a huge Olive tree, the best place to play the approach from would have been the buggy path, from the fairway we were stymied. The 9th was a nice hole and had plenty of width but no real strategic element.


No real grumbles with 10 either a drop hole par 3 but more than enough grumbling for the 11th hole an uphill par 5 double doglegging up a valley with a huge pine tree at the end of the lay up zone, a shot beyond the layup zone rather narrow and glaced with trouble. The 12th had a confusing look because you drove into a sidehill that then doglegged against the slope, the approach was quite nice though. The 13th another par 5 looked great from the tee but the last 50 yards into the green was blind. 14 was a tough par 3 with the green perched on a sawn off volcano, but still okay though tough at 175 yards. The next hole my playing partner hit the fairway but was once again snookered, the short 16th was a bundle of laughs and not for the right reason just 100 yards long the green was 8 yards deep, deep canyon in the front, I played what I thought was a good shot but was long, the ball did come back on the green though, my playing partner putted off the green and into the canyon, but it was possible, I three putted but my approach putt was good, I had a horror from about 3 feet that if I was firm and missed would have gone off the green.


Now we come to the worst hole 17. A par 5 that no sane man would be tempted to try in two. The tee shot narrows at 265 yards, thats ok for me I don't hit it the far anyway, after saying I only hit it 190, when it's warm perhaps I am 210, this being downhill I got it about 235 on this hole. Then faced with either a 90 yard lay or a 150 yard carry over hell. I hit a good 4 wood over okay but it would have been much tougher if not impossible 15 or 20 yards further back. The 17th green is then doglegging for the last 60 yards sharply left. The 18th is a 180 yarder par 3 that was rescue club for me, you need to hit the green though.

I hit all my tee shots well on this day and I hit all 12 of the 12 fairways and I hit 4 of the 6 par 3 holes. I scored 89 (17 over) 30 points off 9. Made 1 birdie and 7 pars. I don't think I have played such a flawed golf course.


Plenty of people have posted good reviews about El Chaparell. I posted pics on facebook but don't know how to get them on here.  Any one else played El Chaparell?



« Last Edit: January 28, 2016, 10:51:54 AM by Adrian_Stiff »
A combination of whats good for golf and good for turf.
The Players Club, Cumberwell Park, The Kendleshire, Oake Manor, Dainton Park, Forest Hills, Erlestoke, St Cleres.
www.theplayersgolfclub.com

Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: I played the worst golf course ever yesterday.
« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2016, 11:49:30 AM »
Adrian


I've had a weeks golf in the Costa Del Sol every year for the last 15 years bar 2 or 3 of those years. I'd love to say I'd played El Chaperel but can't say that I have or haven't. The trouble with golf in the Costa Del Sol is that a lot of the courses look the same and are built half way up and round a mountain or steep hill. The worst I recall playing was a course called (if memory serves me right) Los Aqueros San Pedro which Seve put his name to but was clearly designed by Walt Disney. Some of the holes that I recall include a par 4 with a 90 degree dog leg left. Anything more than a 5 iron off the tee and you hit the steep sided hill at the end of the fairway. The tee shot was then followed by a 3 wood to short of the green.....and so it went on.


In fact some of these courses can be quite fun as long as you've been partaking of the local brew and are playing stableford.


Question for you on El C, do you think the design was largely a product of trying to get 18 holes into a constrained and awkward site or do you think that even so the architect could and should have done better ?


Niall

Tom Birkert

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: I played the worst golf course ever yesterday.
« Reply #2 on: January 28, 2016, 12:32:28 PM »
I played this a few years ago on a Stag Do. It was somewhat miraculous that we weren’t kicked off the course given our behaviour, but I wouldn’t have been disappointed. The highlight of the day was certainly the drinking and hi jinks, and not the course.

Through a drunken haze (which got worse during the round thanks to the warm bottle of Jaegermeister which would be left on every tee) I remember a very dangerous downhill race with one golf buggy facing backwards being pushed down a steep hill by a buggy with 4 people on.

Not my finest hour – but in our defence, no damage was done to the course or other groups (the course was empty).

Adrian_Stiff

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: I played the worst golf course ever yesterday.
« Reply #3 on: January 28, 2016, 01:08:59 PM »
Adrian


I've had a weeks golf in the Costa Del Sol every year for the last 15 years bar 2 or 3 of those years. I'd love to say I'd played El Chaperel but can't say that I have or haven't. The trouble with golf in the Costa Del Sol is that a lot of the courses look the same and are built half way up and round a mountain or steep hill. The worst I recall playing was a course called (if memory serves me right) Los Aqueros San Pedro which Seve put his name to but was clearly designed by Walt Disney. Some of the holes that I recall include a par 4 with a 90 degree dog leg left. Anything more than a 5 iron off the tee and you hit the steep sided hill at the end of the fairway. The tee shot was then followed by a 3 wood to short of the green.....and so it went on.


In fact some of these courses can be quite fun as long as you've been partaking of the local brew and are playing stableford.


Question for you on El C, do you think the design was largely a product of trying to get 18 holes into a constrained and awkward site or do you think that even so the architect could and should have done better ?


Niall
Niall - The sun and the beer do make up a lot. A lot of the courses down here are on very difficult land and it is not easy to get 18 good holes. I think someone like Tom Doak would turn the job down. I think I could make it much better than what it is now so in that respect I do think there is some failure in it's present design, some of which maybe a bloody awfull restore of the original, but the routing is pretty much the same so some big failure. I don't think it can ever be great though some see it as great now. The Europa course at La Cala is pretty good, the North is largely good, the South is not so good. Santana is good, Calanova not bad, Cabopino is quite poor. Torrequebrada I have not played since 1979 but I liked it then. Better courses are further south. When are you over this way next?
A combination of whats good for golf and good for turf.
The Players Club, Cumberwell Park, The Kendleshire, Oake Manor, Dainton Park, Forest Hills, Erlestoke, St Cleres.
www.theplayersgolfclub.com

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: I played the worst golf course ever yesterday.
« Reply #4 on: January 28, 2016, 02:03:50 PM »
A thread about crazy-hilarious-fun-fun-fun Calanova from last year. No return visit to the area this year due to illness. Hope to re-visit in 2017 although I somehow doubt El Chaperel will be on the play list!


http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,60409.msg1430293.html#msg1430293

Now here is a course in southern Spain that's a bit more conventional, San Roque New, and very nice it is -


http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,60454.msg1432068.html#msg1432068




Atb
« Last Edit: January 28, 2016, 02:58:00 PM by Thomas Dai »

Keith Phillips

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: I played the worst golf course ever yesterday.
« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2016, 04:14:31 PM »
Never been and certainly won't now, but wanted to acknowledge one of the most hilarious course reviews I've read on GCA - those hole descriptions made my day!

Marty Bonnar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: I played the worst golf course ever yesterday.
« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2016, 05:10:24 PM »
I absolutely hated Torrequebrada.
I've never felt more claustrophobic on a golf course. Seemed every shot was through some sort of choking corner to a tiny landing area. There was a par 3 downhill where you could barely see the green for the trees. Easily the narrowest hole I've ever played.
Gives me shivers even thinking about it today.

F.

PS Cool name though. Makes me think of "no one expects the Spanish inquisition!"
« Last Edit: January 28, 2016, 05:12:18 PM by Martin Bonnar »
The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

archie_struthers

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: I played the worst golf course ever yesterday.
« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2016, 07:49:23 PM »
 :o 8)




Adrian , with the single best name ever for an architect , Pepe Gancedo . Tell me there's something of merit out there. There's got to be something !

Mike Lacey

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: I played the worst golf course ever yesterday.
« Reply #8 on: January 28, 2016, 10:45:52 PM »
My initial thought upon reading this was that you folks had clearly had not played Parque de Foresta on the Algarve - but after a bit of digging, I discovered that it too was a Pepe Gancedo - so I am not ruling out the possibility that Adrian is correct.  A cartball delight on a very windy site where the mere act of getting around the course puts your life in danger. 

Jon Wiggett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: I played the worst golf course ever yesterday.
« Reply #9 on: January 29, 2016, 03:52:07 AM »
Worst I played in Spain was Atalaya Park New. Horrible, hilly and very dangerous. I played quite a lot of golf in Spain and there are a few decent tracks but none that make you want to walk to the first tee from the 18th green.

Jon

Tom Birkert

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: I played the worst golf course ever yesterday.
« Reply #10 on: January 29, 2016, 05:01:27 AM »
Los Arqueros! I played there a few years ago on a different stag do - there was a hole (the 6th I think) that was the most absurdly narrow drive.

Adrian_Stiff

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: I played the worst golf course ever yesterday.
« Reply #11 on: January 29, 2016, 05:20:18 AM »
:o 8)




Adrian , with the single best name ever for an architect , Pepe Gancedo . Tell me there's something of merit out there. There's got to be something !
The par three holes were not too bad (with the exception of 16 and the 8 yard deep green).


I have played Parque de Floresta and that's fantastic up to this one. I remember it did have several weird holes but there were some good ones. PDF struggled financially, Monte Mayor (another Gancedo) a NLE. I have lots of friends that were members of EC but I guess we never discussed the architecture too much.
A combination of whats good for golf and good for turf.
The Players Club, Cumberwell Park, The Kendleshire, Oake Manor, Dainton Park, Forest Hills, Erlestoke, St Cleres.
www.theplayersgolfclub.com

Adam Lawrence

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: I played the worst golf course ever yesterday.
« Reply #12 on: January 29, 2016, 05:25:43 AM »
My initial thought upon reading this was that you folks had clearly had not played Parque de Foresta on the Algarve - but after a bit of digging, I discovered that it too was a Pepe Gancedo - so I am not ruling out the possibility that Adrian is correct.  A cartball delight on a very windy site where the mere act of getting around the course puts your life in danger.


I haven't seen El Chaparral, but Adrian and I were discussing it yesterday, and we got onto the subject of PdF, which we both know. I remember when I was a kid, Floresta was one of the things you had to see on the Algarve, because none of us had ever come across something so nuts at that time. I don't think it is as bad as you paint it Mike, though for sure it is bonkers. I figure it's a course where you don't take anything seriously, ride a cart and drink some beer and enjoy it for what it is. EC, from Adrian's description, sounds far worse.
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: I played the worst golf course ever yesterday.
« Reply #13 on: January 29, 2016, 06:02:23 AM »
PDF - pretty sure I've played that one and from what I recall one of the nines is actually quite good, or at least I thought it was, while the other nine was poor in comparison. I don't recall it being as bad as your average Costa del Sol round the mountain job.


Torrequebrada - that was a regular on our tour for a while but we gave it up due to the conditioning being so poor. A scruffy round the edges links is quite endearing but a soggy grass worn hilly course isn't, why is that I wonder  :) . Martin - the steep downhill par 3 you are thinking about is probably the short par 4 with the pond front and right of the green and the motorway behind it. There is a notable par 3 and that's the short one under a 100 yards which I quite like (another San Miguel por favor !).


Tom B - I think I recall the hole you are talking about. A shortish straight ahead par 4 with a sheer rising cliff up the left side and a sheer drop down the right and about a 20 yard wide fairway in between (no rough). I think I played 5 iron, 5 iron if I remember rightly.


Adrian - agree about Santana. One of the few courses not playing round a hill. It's a Cabell Robinson design and was one of our favourites until it became well known and the cost went up. His courses are generally pretty good considering. Finca is one of his and has some good holes and a few not so good due to the terrain. Not one to walk. Played another of his last year which I was quite taken with and that's La Reserva down Sotogrande way. Considering the terrain I think it's very good. The only beef I have with Mr Robinson is that he mostly designs his greens the same way with a raised narrow front to the green that obscures the rest of the green for the approach. That tends to get old fairly quickly.


Niall   

Duncan Cheslett

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Re: I played the worst golf course ever yesterday.
« Reply #14 on: November 26, 2019, 01:08:46 AM »
I’m planning a few days at a friend’s apartment in Cala de Mijas with Jayne after Christmas and I’ve been researching  golf courses. Chaparral was looking a good bet until I searched for it on here and landed on this thread!


So, which courses do people recommend in the immediate area?


TIA

Adrian_Stiff

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Re: I played the worst golf course ever yesterday.
« Reply #15 on: November 26, 2019, 03:08:55 AM »
Duncan- If you are staying in La Cala De Mijas. Make sure you drink beer in Bloody Millegans and a Fillet Steak next door. The Chinese Wok is good. Indian the Sai is best. If you walk on the coastal path, spend a couple of hours in The Garden Bar. Streets of London (1/2 mile back towards Fuengi) is nice English food.


La Noria. 9 hole course, cheap 9 hole add on, fun, crazy. 4 par 3, 1 par 5. but not a serious course to play two rounds! Walkable


Santana is the best and Walkable.


Calanova, need a buggy but quite a nice course IMO, few daft holes, good value with decent twilight rates.


La Cala, Europa, America, Asia are the three courses, best to least best, you need a buggy.



A combination of whats good for golf and good for turf.
The Players Club, Cumberwell Park, The Kendleshire, Oake Manor, Dainton Park, Forest Hills, Erlestoke, St Cleres.
www.theplayersgolfclub.com

Duncan Cheslett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: I played the worst golf course ever yesterday.
« Reply #16 on: November 26, 2019, 04:12:01 AM »
Perfect Adrian. Just what I was hoping for!


Do you still winter in Spain?

Adrian_Stiff

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: I played the worst golf course ever yesterday.
« Reply #17 on: November 26, 2019, 04:27:30 AM »
Don't expect any great golf architecture but the sun and beer add about 5 points on the Doak Scale this time of year. You will hate the cost of golf though!


I am in Spain from the jan 10th, but sold my apartment earlier this year.
A combination of whats good for golf and good for turf.
The Players Club, Cumberwell Park, The Kendleshire, Oake Manor, Dainton Park, Forest Hills, Erlestoke, St Cleres.
www.theplayersgolfclub.com

Duncan Cheslett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: I played the worst golf course ever yesterday. New
« Reply #18 on: November 26, 2019, 08:56:17 AM »
Don't expect any great golf architecture but the sun and beer add about 5 points on the Doak Scale this time of year. You will hate the cost of golf though!


I am in Spain from the jan 10th, but sold my apartment earlier this year.


Jayne's friend has been pestering us to go and stay in their apartment FOC for the last 20 years or so, but we've never taken her up on it - it hasn't ever really appealed to us.  We've finally given in however, and are committed to enjoying ourselves there in January!


A couple of rounds with a buggy at La Cala Europa and Santana is going to set us back around 250 Euros. It doesn't seem too bad considering the lodging is free and the flights a lot cheaper than getting the train to Glasgow!

I still find myself strangely drawn to El Chaparral, though!   ;D

« Last Edit: November 26, 2019, 09:24:01 AM by Duncan Cheslett »

Peter Pallotta

Re: I played the worst golf course ever yesterday.
« Reply #19 on: November 26, 2019, 09:10:37 AM »

This thread should be bookmarked for posterity if for no other reason than the brilliant opening line of the original post:
"I played golf yesterday and have been wanting to play El Chaparell for many years and nobody had ever told me it was not very good."
Hemingwayesque in its clarity and directness - not a word wasted, and a complete summary of what gca.com is all about:
I went to play golf, and the course wasn't very good. Why didn't anyone tell me?
Perfect!

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