The Merits of The European Club & Old Head

[Matt_Ward]

I have had the pleasure in playing both courses in the last two consecutive days and truth be told I need someone to explain to me how The European Club gets all the ink it gets. How it rates being among the world's 100 best according to Golf Magazine is beyond me.

The first six holes are merely lightweight stuff and the bulk / meat of the course is the 7th through 13th holes. Many of the holes are shaped with high mounds that funnel down to narrow landing areas but there's no need to be too aggresive because the greens don't have the kind of contouring to cause much worry no matter which side you miss the approach.

I also believe that when a course has only three par-5's and an equal number of par-3's that such a configuration must be a winning one because these holes merit so little on the overall number of holes played. In the case of The European Club these holes barely raised my eyebrow of interest -- although I did enjoy the 14th and the angle by which the green is positioned. The par-5 13th that precedes it is really a yawn of a hole.

I think the last two holes are solid par-4's but all in all for a course to be described as being something in the league with the other more noted Irish courses gives me a thought that there's plenty of blarney being said about The European Club because I didn't see how all the hype really matches up. I don't doubt it's a fine course but "fine" doesn't merit a top 100 in the world in my book.

Regarding Old Head I have to say first and foremost that the course is without question an uncompromisngly stunning sight that I have ever played golf. It simply enthralls you as you drive the tiny road to the 220 acre promontory. The visual look of Old Head (from just a scenic perspective) makes Pebble Beach look like a second bannana by comparison.

How good is the golf? The unfortunate aspect of Old Head is that the feel speaks American design when an Irish motif was what was really needed. That doesn't mean to say the course has nothing to offer. Quite the contrary in my book.

You have a number of superb holes -- the 4th is a dynamic par-4 that doglegs left and heads toward the distant lighthouse. Pull the driver or the approach a tad too far left and it's adios amigo! When you stand on the tee on this hole you can feel the blood pumping through your veins!!!

The two last par-5's you play on the back nine -- the 12th and 17th are just incredible holes. The 12th uses the cliffs in such a creative manner that you almost forget to hit the ball because of the incredible view. The green can be reached in two but the second shot must be played with a jeweler's deft touch. The 17th is also stunning as it goes in the opposite direction and calls upon the player to decide how much you wish to dare. Play too aggresiively and you may land in the sea.

The final hole has, in my my opinion, the finest tee sight you can have as you positioned right up against the lighthouse above you and play towards the dog-leg left hole with the waves crashing 200 feet below you. Simply grand stuff. The tee shot is also well crafted but the second to the green is a bit on the conventional side for the closing hole.

Old Head could use a redoing ofit's bunkers to reflect where the course is located. Too much of the course had the feel of American golf and needs more Irish polish to bring the course to a level of true design sophistication.

Still, if I had to choose between the two I would go with Old Head. When you stand on the grounds and just imagine where you are and what is needed when you play you are in for an experience few other places can provide. Yes, I know the eye-candy aspect is certainly overdosed here but Old Head deserves credit in having a number of fine holes and with tiime being short for me as I travel to Wales tomorrow I will post additional info on both courses later. I'd be curious if anyone has played both courses and how they assess them. Thanks!

[Mitch Hantman]

Matt,

You may remember that I did play these two courses on consecutive days, and although many of your points are correct, I prefer The European as a true links course.  Also, the two additional par 3's at European were excellent (these are alternate holes that total 20 holes).  Your comments on bunkering is correct.

Hope the rest of the trip is great.

[Matt Kardash]

I have never played the European club but Pat Ruddy(the course designer) built an imatation Irish links called the montreal island golf club(http://www.cgimgolf.com/en/) on an old dump here in Montreal. I mean he built some absolutley huge wall to wall dunes.
HOwever, i noticed that he has a tendancy to built many uphill holes with elevated greens. Let me tell you, this makes for the longest par 70 7250 yard course i have ever played. Plus, he seems to make his fairways way to narrow.
This makes for an almost impossible round of golf. A month ago many of the Canadian club pro's came to play here for a  tournament and the winning score was +9

Does the European club feature any of these characterisitcs?
just curious. Maybe our montreal course is the anomoly

[Forrest Richardson]

Matt,

I am glad you visited The European Club. I hope you got to meet Pat Ruddy — he is quite the personality.

I agree that the first six are trash, but not without merit to some degree. The heart of the course is truly interesting. The finisher is a real weird hole, but I found great comfort in knowing that the man who created this monster is also apt to re-design it several times over the next several years. I like that quality — and am envious of this situation. Hats off to Pat. I even like the extra par-3s, creating a 20-hole layout.

[TEPaul]

I've never seen or played the European club but I did play Old Head twice--both times in really high winds (once a day after Tiger Woods).

There really can be no denying that Old Head as a site is the most spectacular in the world--I got bouts of vertigo twice!

Either I'm not observant of architecture while I play or else I'll disagree with Matt Ward about Old Head being "Americanized" in its architecture---anything but, in my opinion. The knock on Old Head's architecture is that it's a bit light on architecture!

I think that's frankly a good thing in the context of that site (its incredible history) and the awesome effects of the wind on that site.

The only holes that I can see are contrived and somewhat unnatural looking to that site are the green-ends of #12 and #15 or #16 (can't remember which). There's a very good reason both those greens surrounds are way over shaped---it's to protect them both from the sea and also to protect them from falling into the sea--something that #15 or #16 actually did once and hence it's name---the name of the shaper who went down with it (and miraculously wasn't killed).

[Darren_Kilfara]

Matt, I agree with you re: The European Club. The dunes there are spectacular, but spectacular does not always lend itself to intelligent golf course architecture. I feel quite strongly that TEC is too severe in any kind of wind, and for many mid-to-high-handicappers besides, and it doesn't compensate for this with the sort of architecture that really stays with you long after you're done playing the course. It is definitely different to most British and Irish links courses; I wonder how much of its reputation rests upon that fact?

I can't comment upon Old Head, as I've never been there.

Cheers,
Darren

[TEPaul]

"I can't comment upon Old Head, as I've never been there."

Darren:

When you do go try to fill your car up with as many people as you can just to hear their collective reaction when they drive over that last hill and Old Head first comes into view before them. I will guarantee that all together the people in your car will say---"OH MY GOD!" That's exactly what happened to the four people in my car--and also to me while alone when I first drove over that last hill and it came into view!

I still find it somewhat hard to believe that anyone was actually allowed to build a golf course on that remarkably historic site! I'm not ordinarily like this but if ever there was a time I could almost hear the murmurs of peoples from thousands of years ago on a site (the Eirrean people)---that was the time!

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

Matt, thank you for stating the obvious about the European Club. I have going on here for several years about what an average course this is. It is so far from a top 100 course that I cannot believe that Ruddy has been able to hype it successfully this long. I have not played Old Head but your views are consistant with those who I respect who have played it. I will never tell someone to go the European Club if there is any course in the Dublin area of note they have not played.

[Tim_Weiman]

Top Paul:

I, too, am not sure what Matt Ward means whe he says the golf course at Old Head is too Americanized. The American influence on the place overall is too strong, I believe. But, I'm not sure that comment applies to the golf course itself.

Matt Ward:

I share your enthusiasm for #4 and #17 at Old Head. Perhaps if I saw the new green on #12 I might have the same feeling.

[Jim_Michaels]

I have played the European club a few times, though not recently. I am told that the standard of maintenance there has improved in recent years as the fees have increased. I really only found two things to dislike about the course before. One was the railroad ties and the other was 18. The golf course is a bit tough for high handicappers without caddies around. I don't know if they have them now, but I have certainly seen a few friends struggle without their assitance.

Many courses have sections of the course that far outstrip the rest. The quality of what preceeds the seaside stretch at TEC is good. And the quality by the sea is totally world class. You guys who don't like this course sound like you might be a bit spoiled to me. Do you guys really mean to tell me that you would rather play Ocean Forest or Cherry Hills or East Lake or Colonial than play at Brittas Bay? Not me, no way.

[Forrest Richardson]

Jim,

You bring up very good points. But I feel the absolute best aspect of The European Club lies in its ownership:

THE ARCHITECT NOT ONLY DESIGNED AND BUILT, BUT HE RUNS THE PLACE!

What a truly remarkable aspect of the course. Pat Ruddy has the freedom to respond to critics — or not. He has the authority to change things, tinker, tweak, fix, screw-up even more water, take bunkers out, add others, get rid of water, add water, dig a ditch, fill in a hole, scrap the extra par-3s, add an extra hole — or not. He can even give away a hotdog without anyone — not a green committee, management company, nor a resort dweeb in executive clothes  — telling him, "No, Pat, that's not acceptable.

In my view the nature of this project — despite a few weird holes and some poor beginning holes — is and one which all who love the game's architecture should take particular note.

Whether it is in "The World's Top 100" I cannot say for there could never be agreement. But your examples of others in that list does create a question.

[Dick_Sayer]

I also had an opportunity to play both Old Head ( twice ) and the European Club the following day.  My article and pictures on Old Head, which originally appeared in the "Philadelphia Golf Magazine," is still posted in the "In My Opinion" section of this website.

Old Head was a spectacular golf experience, particularly the finishing holes along the ocean.  Nearby Kinsale also has some wonderful dining, drinking and folk music spots, and they only add to the overall experience.

In my opinion, the European Club is a golf course waiting for someone to spend a little money to bring it up to its full potential.  The holes along the beach are like Pebble Beach without the cliffs, and a lot of the others remind me of Ballybunion (either course ).

When we were there in 2000, the clubhouse was simply a snack bar, which didn't do much for one's overall impression of the place, and there were no caddies available, even though we had called ahead to confirm that caddies would be there. We ended up carrying our own bags or using pull carts (trolleys). The overall impression of our group was that the European Club was an under capitalized public golf course that was able to charge top of the line daily fees, because of their press coverage.  I'll take Portmarnock over the European Club any day.

[Matt_Ward]

Time is short for me now but just one quick thing -- what is the purpose of the hideous water hazard on the 18th? How TEC merits a top 100 position IN THE WORLD astounds me.

[Jack_Marr]

I will admit to loving the European club. It's a different course every time you play it because of the wind, so I would play it again if you have a chance.

The area in front of the 9th was a marshy area, I have read (maybe on this site). I don't think it takes away from the hole. Because of the slope of the green, it more readily accepts a ball thrown on to it, which is required because of the hazzard.

Anyway, the hazzard never offended me.

What other courses have you left to play during your visit, Matt?

[Forrest Richardson]

Matt,

I am a firm believer that Pat Ruddy was in an "experimentation" stage when he came up with the weird hazard fronting No. 18. While that is not a perfect condition, I find it refreshing that he dared to go ahead with this....thing.

I'll bet he's already thought about what to do with this: fill it in, re-build it, or whatever.

Considering there are two extra holes, forget about the 18th if it makes your stomach turn that bad. I am not wild about all of the holes at ANY golf course. At least this course has a few which are universally detested!

[Ben_Hogan_NJ]

Matt-
I completely agree with you that Old Head, although visually leaves something even like Pebble in the dust, does have an American feel to it.  I played it a few weeks ago (first week of Sept) and the most amazing thing I heard was the purchase price.  They bought that piece of land for $240K.

[TEPaul]

If the actual golf course and its architecture at Old Head has an American feel to it would you mind telling me where I can find that feel in America?

[Matt_Ward]

TEPaul:

Wake up and smell the coffee my good man -- Old Head is a marvelous site -- simply beyond belief -- it's like what Wells portrayed in Citizen Kane with Xanadu. But the feel -- the look (that dreaded word actually applies here) sports a American vision in the manner by which bunkers were created.

I would dare say that if Old Head had a few of the green shapes at Ballybunion Old and completey locked into the sand shapes and dimensions of the bunkers there you would have a course that would be among the greatest in the world.

I personally liked Old Head and I believe a few people who rant and rave about how the course is not Irish enough should keep in mind there are enough holes on the course to challenge the likes of any type player.

How can anyone not be impressed with the three-hole stretch from #2 through #4? I personally believe the fourth is one of the finest holes you can play in all of Ireland. The hole has so many virtues.

The problem with Old Head -- in some ways similar to that of Pebble Beach -- is that the holes away from the shoreline and cliffs are at best mediocre and in a few cases simply boring. What is the grand purpose of the 9th hole? Yes, it's long at 475 yards from the tips but the bunkering on the inside portion of this dog-leg left is simply laughable -- it looks like the boys simply transported the bunker scheme from some schlock course in Florida!!!

The back nine is clearly the better half of the course because the consistency of the holes is quite good. I have to question the location of the rough area in front of the 10th but I was told it is an ancient burial ground and had to stay.

Look, Old Head isn't County Down, Ballybunion or Portrush but for anyone to simply leave it off their list because it doesn't have the total picture of PURE Irish golf is simply missing an experience that is certainly worth the time and effort.

Jack Marr:

My trip to Ireland is concluded and I'm in Wales now. While in Ireland I played the following:

County Down
Portrush (Dunluce)
Portmarnock
Lahinch
Doonbeg
Ballybunion (Old)
Old Head
The European Club

Now in Wales and the list has included the following thus far:

Pennard
Royal Porthcawl
Tenby
Celtic Manor

I will likely have a few others on the list before returning to the States Friday.

It's been a grand time playing here -- for those who have not included it on their visits I recommend seeing the fine golf that exists in Wales -- I have posted a comparison of two courses on another thread -- Pennard and Tenby.

Forrest:

I think The European Club is a fine golf course -- it's just not top 100 in my book because I know a number of outstanding American courses that didn't make Golf Magazine's listing. To be perfectly honest -- I'd much rather play at Old Head.

[TEPaul]

"TEPaul:

Wake up and smell the coffee my good man -- Old Head is a marvelous site -- simply beyond belief -- it's like what Wells portrayed in Citizen Kane with Xanadu. But the feel -- the look (that dreaded word actually applies here) sports a American vision in the manner by which bunkers were created.

I would dare say that if Old Head had a few of the green shapes at Ballybunion Old and completey locked into the sand shapes and dimensions of the bunkers there you would have a course that would be among the greatest in the world."

Well, Matt, I guess that just proves I can't really play a golf course and see the things about it you do! Something I've certainly claimed on here before--that is not being able to play and observe architecture well.

But if Old Head has the kind of architectural feel of most of the American courses I've seen I think I just might continue to be unaware of that fact.

"I would dare say that if Old Head had a few of the green shapes at Ballybunion Old and completey locked into the sand shapes and dimensions of the bunkers there"

Green shapes of Ballybunion old? Locked into the sand bunker shapes and dimension? (whatever the hell that means)?

Did it occur to you that although both are in Ireland that the site and topography of Ballybunion vs Old Head may be very different--that what's on one may not fit the other? I guess not.

I don't know that I've ever seen a site like Old Head and certainly its topography is unique to boot. But if you say it's like Ballybunion's so be it.

But I'll do my best to wake up and smell the coffee--that is provided I don't have to hear that line from you another time! We both should probably just accept the fact that we may look at golf and its architecture very differently and will continue to!

My Best,

Tom

[Tim_Weiman]

Tom Paul:

I'm not exactly sure if Matt Ward meant to compare the conditions of Ballybunion and Old Head, but, obviously, they aren't remotely like each other. Ballybunion is laid out on a big sand pile; the Old Head is more like a big rock. I'll take the former everytime when it comes to building a golf course.

The Old Head is, no doubt, spectacular beyond belief. It is a place that everyone should see and enjoy at least once. But, I don't know if it was a place "God intended to be a golf course". It seems like a better place for a nice Sunday afternoon walk and picnic. Sadly, locals can't do this anymore.

As for great sites for a golf course in Ireland, Old Head simply isn't in the same league as Inch. True, Inch has some lovely views of Dingle Bay. But, that is not what the place is about. Its real character can be found on the ground - or should I say in the sand!

We just have to keep our fingers cross and pray!

[Mitch Hantman]

Matt,

What was your opinion of Doonbeg?  Details!

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

I am too interested in the controversial doonbeg.

[TEPaul]

Tim:

I couldn't agree more about comparisons, certainly in the way of similarities about anything to do with Ballybunion and Old Head. I would never think to say that any architectural features of Ballybunion, manmade or otherwise would belong at Old Head, naturally or otherwise--green shapes, bunker shapes and dimensions, whatever. The whole thought of such a thing seems to be almost the antithesis of naturally site specific or site conducive.

And I agree that as dramatic and powerful a place as Old Head is it does seem incongruous to a golf course. If I were the architect there my natural inclination might be to go so light on architecture or so low profile as to be almost invisible but how exactly do you do that and still make it meaningful?

Even the thought of a sand bunker seems incongruous to me at Old Head basically a rock ridge about 200 ft over the ocean! I'm surprised it has even enough topography for interesting golf holes but the eastern side is pretty interesting that way. The site is basically so narrow though that routing options and such would seem to be limited and fairly obviously dictated.

So I have no idea what Matt means by the remark that what Old Head needs to be great is some architectural features like Ballybunion. I'd really suspect he doesn't know either--probably just said something like that without thinking what it means.

[Matt_Ward]

Tiger / mitchgolfs:

I'll be posting additional details on Doonbeg and othe other Irish courses I played shortly -- I have a tee time right now at Celtic Manor and need to run.

TEPaul:

Please let me know if you're a lawyer or one in training. My only comments regarding the greens at Ballybunion is that they are done so well and if something akin to them were done at Old Head in a few spots the quality of the course would go even further in my book.

I also said that the scale and shape of the bunkers at Old Head needs to reflect what you see at many of the other Irish courses regarding bunkers. Too many at Old Head look like they got shipped in from the States.

Please read and c-o-m-p-r-e-h-e-n-d what I said -- Old Head has a number of solid qualities and I just think a more reflective "Irish look" would add to what the course already provides. Nothing more -- nothing less my good man!

[Ben_Hogan_NJ]

Matt-
Forgot to add one other point.  The short par 5 (#6 I believe) that runs uphill to the old ruins is going to have a new green location.  They are going to make a new green complex across the road and over the old stone wall to make it approximately another 60 yards longer and make it a VERY challenging two shot hole.  Having played it, I wonder what you think of that?

It should be pretty dramatic and I do think that hole is one of the more uneventful (if possible) ones on the course.