Alister MacKenzie's best holes?

« **on:** January 10, 2016, 01:21:54 PM »

There are a lot of Alister MacKenzie holes -

- but which particular holes do you reckon are his best and why?

Par-3's, par-4's, par-5's (but excluding his famous competition winning hole!).

Photos, overheads etc would be useful.

If this subject has been covered herein before it would be appreciated if someone could highlight the relevant thread.

Atb

« **Reply #1 on:** January 10, 2016, 08:43:25 PM »

Certainly his most famous par 3s would be 16 at Cypress Point and Gibralter at Moortown, but I see number 11 at Alwoodley and 15 at Cypress Point as equally terrific holes.

« **Reply #2 on:** January 10, 2016, 09:29:23 PM »

The run from #2 through #6 at Royal Melbourne West is probably as good a run of 5 holes as any.

« **Reply #3 on:** January 10, 2016, 09:36:24 PM »

Quote from: James Bennett on January 10, 2016, 09:29:23 PM

The run from #2 through #6 at Royal Melbourne West is probably as good a run of 5 holes as any.

Sadly I could not cite any par 3s in Australia or New Zealand due to a geographical deficiency. 😩

« **Reply #4 on:** January 10, 2016, 10:48:31 PM »

Bill

#2 and #4 are short par 5's, 3 is the short 4 often used as the first hole of the Composite now with the green that slopes away and to the right (used to be 13 on the composite), 5 is the famous par 3 benched into the hill with a false front and 6 is the rollercoaster par 4 with a downhill tee shot dogleg right uphill second with a green benched into the hill.

Holes 2, 4 and 6 all have heroic characteristics, although 4 has become more strategic than heroic over time.
Holes 2 and 4 are par 4.5's and 3 is short enough to think it is a half-par as well, until you try and get your second anywhere near the pin.
#7 is an all-world short 3 up the hill, but it is not a Mackenzie hole so I left it out

« **Reply #5 on:** January 10, 2016, 10:56:11 PM »

Augusta National #13 (current sequence) is sure to make the list.

Crystal Downs #5 and #8 should be on it as well.

Pasatiempo #'s 10, 11, 14 and 16 are pretty terrific.

« **Reply #6 on:** January 10, 2016, 11:03:20 PM »

If you've played Pasatiempo, you know how daunting his third hole is. Measuring 215 yards (and playing 230) from the tips, it's all carry unless you bounce it in from the left, which ain't easy! Fast-forward to the 15th hole, an adorable little assassin of 141 yards max, tucked away in a pocket of the inward half. 8 and 18 are pretty nice holes, too, but these par threes were world-class for me.

Number three (Pasatiempo Website-www.pasatiempo.com)

Number fifteen (Pasatiempo Website-www.pasatiempo.com)

« **Reply #7 on:** January 11, 2016, 02:43:19 AM »

Dr. Mac was a genius at the par 3 and the list of examples is long. Many on this list are well known such as Gibraltar or the Cypress Point 15th & 16th but there are far more lesser known examples. The 10th & 17th at Sandmoor, Headingly's 17th or the already mentioned 11th at Alwoodley to mention just a few of the Leeds examples.

However for me his real genius was in the balance he produced across the entire course.

Jon

« **Reply #8 on:** January 11, 2016, 04:30:36 AM »

Kingston Heath 15 might be the best uphill par three I've ever seen.

« **Reply #9 on:** January 11, 2016, 08:11:53 AM »

My offerings from none of Dr Mac's big guns.

U of M (in conjunction with Maxwell) 6 (short 4) & 14 (shortish 3).

Cavendish 10 (longish 4), 13 (longish 3) & 15 (short 3).

Moortown 10 (medium 3)

Worcester 12 (longish 4)

Worcestershire 14 (longish 4)

Littlestone 16 (long 4), 17 (longish 3)

Sutton Coldfield 6 Winter Card (long 4)

Lahinch 9 (shortish 4), 11 Winter Hole (short 3)

Alwoodley 8 (medium 5)

Ciao

« **Reply #10 on:** January 11, 2016, 08:33:28 AM »

Thanks for these suggestions.
Some websearching for me to do with regard to some of these holes.
Keep the suggestions coming please.
Atb

« **Reply #11 on:** January 11, 2016, 11:28:00 AM »

Amen Corner

« **Reply #12 on:** January 11, 2016, 01:14:47 PM »

Back 9 at Pasa....

A true master class in routing....

« **Reply #13 on:** January 12, 2016, 12:20:45 AM »

Aside from RM a few of my favourites are:

NSW Par 5 5th

NSW Par 3 6th

NSW Par 4 14th

Royal Adelaide Par 4 3rd

Royal Adelaide Par 4 11th

« **Reply #14 on:** January 12, 2016, 12:54:56 AM »

Wasn't 16 at Pasa supposed to be Mac's favorite? It has always been mine.

« **Reply #15 on:** January 12, 2016, 04:26:48 AM »

13 CPC
15 Kingston Heath
5 Royal Melbourne West

« **Reply #16 on:** January 12, 2016, 12:51:07 PM »

Quote from: Tim Leahy on January 12, 2016, 12:54:56 AM

Wasn't 16 at Pasa supposed to be Mac's favorite? It has always been mine.

I've heard this as well. Can anyone site where this favoritism is taken from? It's a wonderful hole. I think the entire course is special, but 3, 13, 16 & 18 are really special IMO.

« **Reply #17 on:** January 12, 2016, 02:12:30 PM »

Quote from: Andrew Carracino on January 12, 2016, 12:51:07 PM

Quote from: Tim Leahy on January 12, 2016, 12:54:56 AM
Wasn't 16 at Pasa supposed to be Mac's favorite? It has always been mine.

I've heard this as well.
Can anyone site where this favoritism is taken from? It's a wonderful hole. I think the entire course is special, but 3, 13, 16 & 18 are really special IMO.

Andrew,

It's a quote from MacKenzie, but, I think it was confined to par 4's.
I believe a copy is housed in the clubhouse at Pasatiempo.

« **Reply #18 on:** January 12, 2016, 10:30:04 PM »

Thank you. Next time anyone is there, could they post that picture? I can't get back there soon enough!

« **Reply #19 on:** January 12, 2016, 10:41:00 PM »

Quote from: Andrew Carracino on January 12, 2016, 10:30:04 PM

Thank you. Next time anyone is there, could they post that picture? I can't get back there soon enough!

Which picture?

« **Reply #20 on:** January 13, 2016, 12:01:04 AM »

The 5th, 8th and 17th holes at Crystal Downs are three of the best holes I've ever played.

The 5th:

The 8th:

The 17th:

« **Reply #21 on:** January 13, 2016, 06:03:24 AM »

Thanks all for the further suggestions.

Those Crystal Downs holes look terrific Jon, thanks for the photos and Aussie golf, per Don's photos, always looks damn enticing - that's a very cool looking greensite on the 3rd at Royal Adelaide.

Keep suggestions coming, especially any from off the usual radar courses.

Atb

« **Reply #22 on:** January 13, 2016, 06:06:53 AM »

Quote from: Ronald Montesano on January 12, 2016, 10:41:00 PM

Quote from: Andrew Carracino on January 12, 2016, 10:30:04 PM
Thank you. Next time anyone is there, could they post that picture? I can't get back there soon enough!

Which picture?

A picture of the quote of Dr. Mackenzie confirming that the 16th at Pasatiempo is his favorite that Pat said is in the Pasa clubhouse.

« **Reply #23 on:** January 13, 2016, 10:34:03 AM »

Quote from: Sean_A on January 11, 2016, 08:11:53 AM

My offerings from none of Dr Mac's big guns.

U of M (in conjunction with Maxwell) 6 (short 4) & 14 (shortish 3).

Cavendish 10 (longish 4), 13 (longish 3) & 15 (short 3).

Moortown 10 (medium 3)

Worcester 12 (longish 4)

Worcestershire 14 (longish 4)

Littlestone 16 (long 4), 17 (longish 3)

Sutton Coldfield 6 Winter Card (long 4)

Lahinch 9 (shortish 4), 11 Winter Hole (short 3)

Alwoodley 8 (medium 5)

Ciao

S,

I'll go with UofM #3, #6, and #15. We agree on 1 out of 2

Osu Scarlet Pre JN
#1 and #11

News:

Thomas Dai

Bill_McBride

James Bennett

Bill_McBride

James Bennett

Kyle Henderson

Ronald Montesano

Jon Wiggett

Adam Lawrence

Sean_A

Thomas Dai

Paul Jones

Kalen Braley

Don Jordan

Tim Leahy

Pat Burke

Andrew Carr

Patrick_Mucci

Andrew Carr

Ronald Montesano

Jon Cavalier

Thomas Dai

Andrew Carr

BCowan

An Error Has Occurred!