Winter Golf Damage? Fact or Fiction?

[Dave McCollum]

We have a somewhat unique environment being in a 500 foot deep canyon.  We're on the south side of the canyon running east-west.  So the most southernly holes have a winter shadow caused by the canyon wall blocking the low southern sun (US northern heimisphere).  So we have parts of three holes that get less sun and remain snow covered longer than the rest of the course.  During mild winters, most of our golf is played on the sunniest nine holes.  When spring finally comes around and the grass starts growing and greening up, it's really quite dramatic to see the "shadow" holes, the ones that rested during the winter, recover much faster than those that were played.  They can be as much as three weeks ahead of the rest of the course.  It is a very convining demonstration of the wear and tear caused by winter golf traffic.


And, as pointed out above, most golfers just don't seem to notice the wear patterns and just take the shortest routes to their balls, causing the patterns to be that much more obvious.  Drives me nuts, especially employees who should know to spread out the damage.

   

[Tim Martin]

Despite being in New England Shennecossett in Groton Connecticut remains open weather permitting. Eric Morrison does a great job of preparing the golf course but is more reticent to put tees in play in the Winter than greens. I wonder if he or someone else might comment on this practice.

[Joe Leenheer]

This is a troubling thread.

Your superintendent made a decision and you're posting on a very public forum looking to either defend or fight that decision.

Troubling?  What is so troubling about questioning something or someone?  In my world, the superintendent is not god.  This thread was intended to seek out what other clubs do during the winter for the members/customers and to gain more knowledge about winter golf and the possibilities of "damage".  So far so good IMO. 


I encourage everyone to question anything that they don't understand or don't agree with.  That's the only way to learn something new or expose someone's poor practices/thinking….otherwise the world would still be flat.

[Kyle Harris]

This is a troubling thread.

Your superintendent made a decision and you're posting on a very public forum looking to either defend or fight that decision.

Troubling?  What is so troubling about questioning something or someone?  In my world, the superintendent is not god.  This thread was intended to seek out what other clubs do during the winter for the members/customers and to gain more knowledge about winter golf and the possibilities of "damage".  So far so good IMO. 


I encourage everyone to question anything that they don't understand or don't agree with.  That's the only way to learn something new or expose someone's poor practices/thinking….otherwise the world would still be flat.

So, ask your superintendent. Or your Golf Chairman. Or your Green Chairman.

Why didn't you ask him what he was spraying and why it was acceptable for tires to be on the green, yet not feet?

Why would another golf club's experience and variables and usage be applicable to yours?

Why not be more anonymous/general with your request? Something akin to: "What do other clubs do in winter with warmer-than-usual conditions on greens?" No need to name people or situations.

Whether or not you realize it, what you are doing is stacking the deck and pressuring one decision-maker in your club to change his decision-making over an area of the club for which he is ultimately responsible, and you're doing it in a forum accessed to everyone. I don't know the culture of your club, but have you considered how the above three people would feel if they realized you had brought this question here so openly?

What if your superintendent is just smarter than others? 

[Jon Wiggett]

Kyle,

Does Joe mention any names at any point in this thread? I certainly can't find any.

Joe,

if it is frozen solid then there will be no damage. The only time I have come off greens in the past is when the top level has thawed but it is still frozen underneath. Yes, there might be a little damage but this heals quickly and the golfers are much happier playing on normal greens.

Jon

[Tom Allen]

I thought the questions posed in the initial post were objective, fair, and not critical of anyone in particular.  It was specifically seeking perspectives and opinions from others (perhaps so we could all learn best practices in the area.  At least that is the way I took it).

To me, the post opened a good discussion, and I learned a lot from both the responses and the pdf posted.

[Justin VanLanduit]

We close our greens each winter, located in Chicago.  Time we close them is all dependent on weather; this season it was in the 3rd week of November last year it was early November.  A few things are taken into account here for our decision:
1.) There are only a handful of people that would play, why should the golf course conditions be risked for a few only to hamper the experience of all the others?
2.) If greens aren't completely frozen ballmarks will occur; if greens are bentgrass they will not heal till late May leaving an open wound for Poa seed to get into and germinate during the ample Poa germination time of April through June.  If you have bentgrass greens I'm sure the last thing you want is a bunch of Poa having the ability to push its way in.
3.) Risk of thaw and traffic on the greens for a few reasons; as mentioned, root sheer. Now if sheer occurs that area will not be as healthy as the rest of the green.  Take the photo of foot traffic as reference, imagine half of those footprints from one foursome creating root shear; now multiply that by a number of foursomes and if root shear takes place that can set the greens in a negative direction for spring.  I say "can" as maybe it won't but do you really want to find out?  Second if the greens have slightly thawed and people are walking all over them footprinting may develop then those prints could freeze over night it temps drop.  Imagine coming into spring with hundreds of foot prints frozen into a green that was a little too soft to be walking on.  They will come out but it will take some time with rolling, topdressing etc to get greens back to that smoothness I'm sure all those that didn't play in winter desire, heck even those that did.


When dealing with Mother Nature and living things like turf there is no exact science.  If there was we wouldn't continue to hear horror stories about winter kill on golf courses.  This is the same thing; what is the fine line?  What exact conditions will create damage and what will not; it's a gamble and the Superintendent is making the safe decision to provide the membership with the best conditions he can.  Would you rather he be overly cautious during unknown circumstances or just let it go and risk your most valuable asset; the golf course, let alone the greens. 


Lastly, regarding the question about foot traffic and sprayer; it's all about PSI.  Now I'm not sure what type of sprayer your Superintendent has but these machines are designed to spread psi across the 4 tires very well.  Manufactures know the machines need to be used in certain situations and design it to limit any damage created.  Also, was there the thought that he needed to get a product out to protect the surface from upcoming weather and there was a window of time that the product needed to dry and couldn't have traffic on the turf which would risk the removal of product.  I'm just throwing certain situations out there that are applicable.


Like others have said, ask your Superintendent.  We are very open and willing to discuss decisions we make and help educate.  Now you may not agree but that is for you to decide.  Give him the benefit of the doubt; it's December and January and he is thinking ahead about how conditions will be for the membership in the heart of the golf season; May through September.

[PCCraig]

Here in Minnesota, typically you couldn't play a round of golf even if you wanted to mid-winter as it's pretty cold and there is usually a solid base of snow that sticks around until the spring. Our course fully closes, but the club leaves all of the gates open and they let whoever wants to out to snowshoe, X-country ski (they groom trails), run dogs, hike, whatever. I think most clubs up here do something similar. If you went out there right now you would see foot and paw prints all over the place.


Even still, after the Superintendent covers the greens, he also puts fencing around all of them so no one can/will walk on them. I could be wrong, but I think footprints in snow turn into ice, which can harm the greens (ours are mostly an old strain of poa).

[Justin VanLanduit]

Here in Minnesota, typically you couldn't play a round of golf even if you wanted to mid-winter as it's pretty cold and there is usually a solid base of snow that sticks around until the spring. Our course fully closes, but the club leaves all of the gates open and they let whoever wants to out to snowshoe, X-country ski (they groom trails), run dogs, hike, whatever. I think most clubs up here do something similar. If you went out there right now you would see foot and paw prints all over the place.


Even still, after the Superintendent covers the greens, he also puts fencing around all of them so no one can/will walk on them. I could be wrong, but I think footprints in snow turn into ice, which can harm the greens (ours are mostly an old strain of poa).

You are absolutely correct.  We've seen damage in fairways from snowshoes and X-country skiers as they pack the snow which turns to ice then is the slowest to melt.  Those marks will at times not grow out till late June to early July depending on spring weather.

[Joe Leenheer]

March Update….


We have had a VERY MILD winter in our area.  We played record rounds in November, December, January, and February (first time I've seen golf in Ohio in February in 10 years).


We played on the greens in more freeze to thaw weather then anyone expected which by some peoples accounts would put us at HIGH RISK for damage.


No damage, 30+ new golf members, greens are as good right now as I've ever seen this early in year, and the membership couldn't be happier.  I myself played 20+ rounds this winter that I wouldn't have if we went to temps.  Members played over 2500 rounds.   


Club growing and members happy.

[BHoover]

This is great, Joe. I'm glad to hear that the course is doing well. I'm also wishing we had those Ohio winters more often!