[Mike_Young]

Sean,
You may have never seen the problem the way I do.  I understand where you are coming from and I appreciate good conditions.  What I'm trying to say is that if green fees on average public courses continue to be depressed then some things will have to give.  The answers to the topic question make it obvious that the ideal maintenance reduction conditions are in the cool season, sand based courses. 

[Mark Chaplin]

Sean even the lowest budget clubs have mowers so I don't think the rough would take over.

[Ben Sims]

I think there's an argument for Augusta. If it's Bermuda grass and maintained similarly to another course of with large scale and big corridors (Wolf Point).

[Sean_A]

Sean even the lowest budget clubs have mowers so I don't think the rough would take over.

Chappers

At most clubs there is too much rough now!  I have no doubts that with less money comes more rough.  Plus, winter cut back programs and long term improvement plans would be largely scrapped. 

Mike

I hear you with depressed public green fees.  I have said several times that I am amazed at how cheap public courses are in Michigan....and these are decent to good courses!  I have no idea how a guy running a place makes a living charging $30 or $40 a game when there is no winter season.  In Michigan, this depression is really due to huge competition.  Michigan has to be top 5 for most courses in the country and probably the most of any state in the northern half of the country.  I would guess 75% of those courses are public...so in the neighbourhood of 700 courses!  Its tough to charge a bundle in that market.  Additionally, I would guess maybe 20% of the publics are munis which offer an alternative if the public choices are too expensive or not up to snuff.  My advice...don't open a public course in Michigan unless you have a special product   


Ciao

[Patrick_Mucci]

Pat


That was 20 years ago. 
 
Sean,
 
Nothing's changed.
 
The budgets at SHCC, Maidstone and Newport pale in comparison to Atlantic and others.
 
Each club has a unique culture and it's rare indeed when that culture changes in 20 short years.
 
People also go on about equipment from that day.  Its over...for better or worse the game has moved on. 
 
I think it's more a function of "expectations"
 
When you watch the PGA Tour on TV every week and see optimal conditions, who amongst us doesn't want to play optimal conditions ?
 
High end golfers expect and will pay for pristine conditions.  I have never seen the problem with this in the way Mike does.
 
As in life, when you pay a premium for a product, you expect a superior product.
 
Every club has to find its niche and sure, many clubs aim well above their "station" in life. 
 
Sean, isn't that a noble cause ?  To strive to be better ?  To improve quality ?
 
I may think it silly, but if clubs can pull off spending loads of dosh to maintain average courses then ce la vie.
 
Not every course can be SHCC or NGLA, thus, because they lack the architectural quality of a SHCC or NGLA, why not produce optimal conditions for golf ?  Why not strive to attain and maintain the best playing surfaces possible ?
 
Its the way of the world to want more and we all do...its just that many of us are not able/willing to pay for it 
 
That's true, not everyone can afford a Rolls Royce.
But, if you can duplicate the "ride", why not ?
That's how Lexus and Hyndai got their start, by offering an affordable product that performed well.



Ciao

[BCowan]

Sean even the lowest budget clubs have mowers so I don't think the rough would take over.

Mike

I hear you with depressed public green fees.  I have said several times that I am amazed at how cheap public courses are in Michigan....and these are decent to good courses!  I have no idea how a guy running a place makes a living charging $30 or $40 a game when there is no winter season.  In Michigan, this depression is really due to huge competition.  Michigan has to be top 5 for most courses in the country and probably the most of any state in the northern half of the country.  I would guess 75% of those courses are public...so in the neighbourhood of 700 courses!  Its tough to charge a bundle in that market.  Additionally, I would guess maybe 20% of the publics are munis which offer an alternative if the public choices are too expensive or not up to snuff.  My advice...don't open a public course in Michigan unless you have a special product   


Ciao

S,

   I agree that Michigan has too many courses, but the correction has and is taking course.  Northville hills, Calderone, and Moose Ridge do not charge $30 on the weekend and most don't on the weekday.  Ones charging $30 have very small maint budgets and those are the ones that can be profitable.  Beer leagues and cheap golf aren't going out of demand anytime soon.  Many of the publics make it on lower staffed golf shops and offer playing privileges daily to maint workers that privates only do on mondays.  6 month seasons are just as profitable imo.   
20,000 rounds at $30 ain't too bad aand I guarantee the maint upkeep is low.  In any business model saving ones acorns during good times is wise...

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