Holes that get harder as you get closer to the hole

[Greg Taylor]

15th at Notts/Holinwell ?!

[Rob Marshall]

I think the 4th at Lahinch the Klondike is like that. The hole gets narrower as you get closer plus you have a 35' dune to clear on the second shot.

The Klondike isn't narrow at the green. It's actually pretty open around the green. The driving area is where it's tight.

[David_Tepper]

#18 at TOC?   ?
 
How so ?

Pat -

You have a fairway 100 yards wide for your tee shot, but you have to decide how you are going to cross the VoS on your 2nd shot, with a pitch or chip or putt. Getting the ball on the green isn't too tough. Getting it close to the hole can be.

Plus you have the pressure of the crowd invariably hanging around the 18th green watching you.

DT 

P.S. You could probably say the same about the 1st at TOC, wide open fairway on your tee shot and much trouble on your 2nd shot.

[Carl Rogers]

Almost all holes at Pinehurst No.2 would qualify.

[James Brown]

Short par fives on British links courses can be so amazingly hard!


As just one example, 8 and 9  and 11 at North Berwick can rip you to pieces if not careful on the second shot. 


That fairway bunker at 100 yards on 16 at Pinehurst #2 is death.  And placement on #7 is also super critical. 

[Mike_Young]

15th ANGC

[mike_malone]

This is William Flynn's design philosophy, I believe. So practically every hole he designed gets harder as you get closer to the green.

[Thomas Dai]

#18 at TOC?

Probably every hole at TOC! Maybe that's why it's so universally admired?
Atb

[Ronald Montesano]

#18 at TOC?

For the gentleness of touch required to negotiate the V.O.S., versus a full wedge that flies into the meat of the green?

[Wade Whitehead]

Ballyhack #2?

The target on #2 certainly shrinks with each shot played, especially when one of the tougher pins (front left) is used.

That's a good thing, because the distraction of the long view from the tee doesn't allow most people to concentrate on that tee shot.

Players routinely underestimate the second and third shots, which puts them in all kinds of places (bunkers, rough, native grass, and, ultimately, dead long and left of the green).

Great example!

WW

[Wade Whitehead]

On a related note: The best players understand that, at least in terms of outcome, shots increase in value as a hole is played.  Even if shots on a hole are of equal "difficulty," they become harder because stakes rise.

This is why even a slight increase in actual difficulty from one shot to the next causes so much trouble for so many players.  It's multiplied without the golfer even knowing it.

WW

[William_G]

#14 ANGC

[Carl Rogers]

This is William Flynn's design philosophy, I believe. So practically every hole he designed gets harder as you get closer to the green.

Having played the Cascades twice, I would agree.

[Tim_Weiman]

The first place I thought of when I saw this topic was Ballybunion.  It's not entirely true; as long as you're straight in to those greens you are fine.  But miss one to the side and you'd rath be 100 yards back in the fairway.

The best example might be the 9th hole at Ballybunion. I always felt the best second shot - risk and reward considered - is to lay up just short. Not easy to make par from there, but at least it eliminated double bogey or worse.

[Jim Tang]

The 3rd hole a Pacific Dunes.  Generous off the tee.  It gets more narrow as you go.  I've always thought that 3rd shot into the green is very difficult to judge, especially when the wind is up.

[Doug Siebert]

I think the 4th at Lahinch the Klondike is like that. The hole gets narrower as you get closer plus you have a 35' dune to clear on the second shot.

Well the second shot is harder than the tee shot since you can't see the green, etc. but once you're past the dune the hole is pretty flat and simple so that's more of an example of a hole that gets harder in the middle but is easier on the tee and the green

[James Brown]

I think the 4th at Lahinch the Klondike is like that. The hole gets narrower as you get closer plus you have a 35' dune to clear on the second shot.

Well the second shot is harder than the tee shot since you can't see the green, etc. but once you're past the dune the hole is pretty flat and simple so that's more of an example of a hole that gets harder in the middle but is easier on the tee and the green

Unless you hit the narrow fairway in what is usually a cross wind, you are pretty much screwed on this hole.  If you do hit the fairway, the dune is not nearly as much of an issue.  I wish the fairway was 10 yards wider, because it's borderline unfairness leads to lots of ball searching. 

[Kyle Henderson]

14th at Pebble Beach.

[Charlie_Bell]

Don't they say that the 2nd shot at #2 of Royal Dornoch is the hardest shot on the course?   Par 3.

[Bill Brightly]

I agree that 3 East at Ridgewood is a great par 5 but I don't think it gets harder the closer you get to the hole. 8 West does due to the slope of the approach:









The approach on 3 East does not really get harder

[Mark_Fine]

I think we are seeing a pretty obvious trend here - most holes get harder as you approach the hole.  And even holes with challenging tee shots (at least all well designed holes) always offer continued challenge and interest as one approaches the hole. 

[JESII]

I think about 8 holes have been cited...how do you figure most holes get harder based on these suggestions?


In general, I'll take the shorter shot other than the rare occasion that I know it will not be to my benefit...

[Mark_Fine]

Jim,
Do you disagree with me?  I doubt you do.  Let's take Pine Valley as one example since we both know that course well.  Do you disagree with my point?  How about Winged Foot or Sand Hills or Pebble Beach or Olympic or Crystal Downs or Huntingdon Valley or Brookline or Shinnecock Hills or Merion,..  Need I continue 

[Lester George]

Hopefully most every par 5 I have ever built.  Just the way I was raised I guess, but that would be my intent.

Lester

[Dean DiBerardino]

Almost all holes at Pinehurst No.2 would qualify.

+1