Armchair (AAC) 2015/2016 IV (9 Holes)

[Steve Lang]

   Ben, why not qualify this as a private 9-holer, so one doesn't have to worry about beening other golfers, lines of play can thus cris- cross the land??


I'm in either way


You might want to reach out to I believe it was, Alex Miller, who did this last for the Hooker Co AAC...  and someone does have to define the prevailing winds

[BCowan]

Steve,

   Private 9 hole tracks are ludicrous imo.  Players have to sign a wavier before they play  if you criss cross.  By the time this gets completed golfers will be required by law to wear helmets walking in-between shots  .  Yes, we do need prevailing wind pattern. 

Alex Miller is in.  Waiting for Adrian to dish out the details, I'm just the doorman.   

[BCowan]

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,55315.0.html

2013 AAC.  Some mighty fine submissions. 

[Kalen Braley]

Prevailing wind would be nice to know, in addition to if this will be a low or high traffic 9 holes.

Based on my initial look and quick measures, it will be tough to get a par 33 out of this piece of land, much less a par 36.

[Adrian_Stiff]

I think just use the same rules as I did:


The land is edged in blue, try and think of the limits for safety, and you need to start and finish at the pub/car park/ cabin.


It was an old Harry Vardon and was 18 holes 5000 yards, but included more land to the South and to the East.


Some of the Old greens are still there, it closed about 1950 then became an 18 hole pitch and putt course then in about 1980 it became a 9 hole pitch and putt. It closed about 7 years ago but is now being brought back.

[Adrian_Stiff]

Prevailing wind would be nice to know, in addition to if this will be a low or high traffic 9 holes.

Based on my initial look and quick measures, it will be tough to get a par 33 out of this piece of land, much less a par 36.

Prevailing wind is SW. Assume low volume traffic.

[Peter Pallotta]

I have no talent for such things whatsoever so can't participate. But one idea that one of you might consider is to have both a "Par Score" and a modified "Bogie Score" on the same card/same yardage. One and only one set of tees, from which everyone plays (which should increase the amount of useable acreage a bit). But, for example, there might be a 240 yard Par 3 which would play as a Par 4 on the Bogie card; and a 440 yard Par 4 (which would be a Par 5 for the Bogie card). There would also be a 270 yard hole that plays as a Par 4 for everyone, and a 110 yard hole that plays as a Par 3 for everyone, etc - so that in the end the total yardage is the same for both cards, but one plays to a "Par 33" and the other to a "Par 35" (or 36 if you can find another long 4/short 5).   
Peter

[Steve Lang]

    Place has quite some history.. recent as well!

Hooray For the ladies!
http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/Women-chain-railings-protest-golf-course-plans/story-26320600-detail/story.html


Looks like real tight site per Google earth measurements
blue outline 25 acres
left red line 211 yds, right red line 148 yds, bottom red line 666 yards


and you can apparently fly into the Filton Airport (FZO) about 17 miles to the NE... looks like prevailing winds are E or W per runway, and per previous note of SW, parallel to coastline...  best bet W prevailing, and you might want to warm up at that course on the south flank of FZO.

[Kalen Braley]

Prevailing wind would be nice to know, in addition to if this will be a low or high traffic 9 holes.

Based on my initial look and quick measures, it will be tough to get a par 33 out of this piece of land, much less a par 36.

Prevailing wind is SW. Assume low volume traffic.

Adrian thanks for the response

P.S.  Do you know if a few of the trees on the course, including the ones in the middle can be removed?

Thanks,

[Adrian_Stiff]

Prevailing wind would be nice to know, in addition to if this will be a low or high traffic 9 holes.

Based on my initial look and quick measures, it will be tough to get a par 33 out of this piece of land, much less a par 36.

Prevailing wind is SW. Assume low volume traffic.

Adrian thanks for the response

P.S.  Do you know if a few of the trees on the course, including the ones in the middle can be removed?

Thanks,

Kalen, the back ground to your answer is that I did get permission to remove some of them, though I did not remove all of them. I think for the purpose of this exercise do what you want, however you might wish to factor that in the UK, tree removal is considered a minus in obtaining planning for pretty much anything.

[BCowan]

So design the course while leaving the trees/brush up, get approvals, and the day before opening you whack the trees/shrubs in the middle of the night?   

[Kalen Braley]

Prevailing wind would be nice to know, in addition to if this will be a low or high traffic 9 holes.

Based on my initial look and quick measures, it will be tough to get a par 33 out of this piece of land, much less a par 36.

Prevailing wind is SW. Assume low volume traffic.

Adrian thanks for the response

P.S.  Do you know if a few of the trees on the course, including the ones in the middle can be removed?

Thanks,

Kalen, the back ground to your answer is that I did get permission to remove some of them, though I did not remove all of them. I think for the purpose of this exercise do what you want, however you might wish to factor that in the UK, tree removal is considered a minus in obtaining planning for pretty much anything.

I only ask because without giving too much away,  without the ability to remove some of the trees in the middle of the course, my current proposed routing wouldn't work at all.  Its a tight enough space as is, and in my amateur armchair opinion,  to limit the routing to the two boxed areas make it brutal to get a decent routing in...

[John_Conley]

From my armchair I'm going to look in the vicinity for a tract of land more conducive to 9 holes of golf.
 

[Adrian_Stiff]

If anyone is on facebook and wants any pictures there are a few there. Just do a friend request.

[BCowan]

Adrian,

    Is there a particular scale you would like to use? 

[Alex Miller]

Yes, it'd make sense to me to double the scale. Still have a challenging property fit in a full length 9, but allow for more variety in the routings. Would also make the site less severe (unless you want to double the topo scale too).


Cheers

[Thomas Dai]

I'm interested to see how this develops.

If you look at Instant Street View you can see the existing property from the surrounding roadside -

https://www.instantstreetview.com/@51.484876,-2.786717,29.86h,-12.84p,1z

Atb

[Kalen Braley]

You guys will have to explain in English what doubling the scale means and how that would change things. How would it add variety or otherwise? 

The main thing I've been using so far is the distance legend in the left hand corner to establish hole lengths and the elevations on the topo lines.

[Adrian_Stiff]

Adrian,

    Is there a particular scale you would like to use?

The scale does not matter just fit it to the drawing. The length of the land is about 680 yards, at its widest its about 270 yards. If people want crossing holes that's up to them.
For those wanting to give up. These are the sort of challenges you get at the lower end of designing golf courses. If you feel it would make a better par 3 course do that. It is a beautiful peace of land with fantastic views across the chanell to Wales, but it is steep.

[Adrian_Stiff]

Yes, it'd make sense to me to double the scale. Still have a challenging property fit in a full length 9, but allow for more variety in the routings. Would also make the site less severe (unless you want to double the topo scale too).


Cheers

Like not take any notice of what the land is, you mean?

[Kalen Braley]

Adrian,

    Is there a particular scale you would like to use?

The scale does not matter just fit it to the drawing. The length of the land is about 680 yards, at its widest its about 270 yards. If people want crossing holes that's up to them.
For those wanting to give up. These are the sort of challenges you get at the lower end of designing golf courses. If you feel it would make a better par 3 course do that. It is a beautiful peace of land with fantastic views across the chanell to Wales, but it is steep.

Adrian,\

I think this is an interesting exercise.  while I've been able to find a couple of routings that are greater than a par 27, I haven't been able to get a par 36 out of it.  I just don't think its probable unless one creates  a bunch of 220 Meter holes and calls them par 4s. 

P.S.  My shortest par 4 I've found is ~260 Meters.

[Kalen Braley]

Wanted to give this a little bump.

Worked on this project over the weekend, found 2 potential routings that are similar to each other with a few common holes.  Must admit, given the small and rectangular nature of the property, its difficult to get holes running in various 45 degree angle offsets to the line of the road, and still get more than a par 27 out of it.

That being said, I've at least been able to find a fairly good variety of hole lengths....

How's everyone else finding it?

Kalen

[Daryn_Soldan]

I worked on it over the weekend as well. Managed to come up with a par 32 option but it requires a long hole running east to west along the road on the south part of the property. Leaning toward a par 30 or 31 version that better addresses the road. Also trying to get a good mix of holes without running a bunch of par 3's or par 4's together in a row. Definitely finding some tight spots in the routing either way. Holes range from 100-430 yards (but only one over 360).

Anybody else have feedback on the site or their efforts?

- Daryn

[Drew Groeger]

I've found the site very challenging, even difficult at times, which makes it such great fun. I worked out some routings over the weekend, mostly par 30's, until I finally settled on a par 31 (1865yds/1705m). Even that is very tight and I'm tweaking some tee box locations and other angles for safety reasons.

In general, I find the site to be fairly steep, a bit moreso closer to the clubhouse. By my calculations (dubious at best!) the site has a mostly consistent 7 to 10 degree slope (12% to 17%) down to the Severn. I'm not savvy enough to know if those numbers qualify as steep, the Google Map Street View from Nore Road (the "top" of the site) means you're looking down the site, which tends to foreshorten the sloping effect. I tried the views from Ashdown Road looking back to the site but the houses are in the way. There is one view in front of 10 Ashdown Road that gives a hint of the overall slope of the hill. Speaking of views, I'm very curious what the site looks like from the north, along Gordano Round (a foot path?) and how it transitions to the beach.

For me the routing challenge is to avoid any severely uphill or downhill holes, but it's nearly unavoidable. What goes up must come down. It's also a challenge to accept what the site is giving you and making the most of it.

Some upcoming holiday travel means I'll be denied a few days of armchair architecting but I'll be back at it in earnest next week.

[Kalen Braley]

I've come up with two Par 33 routings that I'm deliberating over.  Its a bit tight, but I feel like the tee box locations and Landing zones help to mitigate the safety concerns.

And yes, most of the par 4s play relatively short, but a few of them play into the prevailing wind which will effectively make them longer.

Anyone find a par 5 on the property?