[THuckaby2]

Oh please, now I've heard everything.  You do dream a lot!  And boy, you sure do have a unique ego-centric trend toward revisionist history.  Sorry, it was on the 14th fairway, but it was our host who said it, and my eyes that lit up, along with yours... it was far from a private conversation, OBVIOUSLY.

And there was no moping on my part, I was proud of my 8.  Perhaps you're unclear on this because you were still moping over your several ball-in-pocket finishes of front nine holes?

You're as wrong about this as you were about MY idea for stretching 6 at Pebble to go all the way down to 7 green.  My idea, that you later took credit for.  I guess if you hear something it automatically becomes yours?  

Anyway, this is beside the point, which is that whoever said it, it's a damn good thought, one that just crystallizes for me why I say:

NGLA 1, SH/Muirfield joint 2.

TH

[THuckaby2]

redanman:  you're right, you're eccentric, and I don't know what the hell you meant by the ps, and I read it three times!

Re Friar's Head - looks great, cool.  Everyone who's seen it says it's great cool.  Not much more to say.  Would you have every thread end like that?

 

TH

[ForkaB]

Tom

It was the 12th.  You were so far behind me and Gene that you couldn't have heard what we were saying even if we had shouted it back to you!

As we rehashed my bon mot in the pub later on that evening, your whisky-damaged brain probably was a few synapses short of qualifying for homo sapiens, so I forgive your lapse of memory.  I know, as I was the only sober one that night!

[THuckaby2]

redanman:

Hell, "eye candy" can be defined in so many ways, I can't answer that.  For example, Goodale calls the bunkers on 4 and 5 at CPC "eye candy" and I find them very much relevant and very much in play.

Limit it to hazards, bunkers, flowerbeds, etc. that are absolutely out of play without question and hell yes, those are a negative, taking funds and attention away from where it belongs, the actual playing of the course.  Sure, attractive surroundings are a plus, but that can be achieved in other ways if it's not there already.

TH

[Anthony_Nysse]

Why is it that some many topics start off with comments and reactions made towards the original topics, but but tend to go off and not even mention the topic again? I.E.-This is a topic about Friar's Head, yet one mention of Shinnecock or National, Friar's isn't mentioned for 25 posts...why is it that so many topics end this way?

[THuckaby2]

Anthony:

In this case, perhaps it's because so few people have seen Friar's Head, there's not much more to say beyond "cool, sounds great"?

That happens a lot... what the originator wants to discuss might or might not generate a lot of interest, but something someone else says in connection with it does, and so it goes.  I know Tim W. feels this is counterproductive, but as I said to him I prefer this way to too many very specific, short threads...

To each his own.  I continue to fail to see any problem.

And btw, you yourself just posted something having nothing to do with the quality of Friar's Head.  

No hassles.  Life is too short to sweat this.

TH

[Anthony_Nysse]

Mr. Huckaby,
  Actually, I've posted earlier in regards to quassi about Friar's...it is that Damn good!!! I've refuse to post alot of my person feelings about Friar's, as I had worked there during the construction and grow in. All I will say is that the site is awesome, the people behind Friar's and as professional as they come and it was a joy and honor to be a part of.

[THuckaby2]

Mr. Nysse:
First of all, there's no need for the formality.  Call me Tom.  Call me Numbnuts.  Call me Idiot.  Just don't call me late for dinner...

No hassles.  We can add your voice to the growing choir singing the praises of Friar's Head.  By all accounts it is supposed to be spectacular, as evidence by the comparisons people make... better than Pine Valley...  I don't doubt this one bit, and I can absolutely understand how you'd feel honored to be a part of it.  I sure would also.  Well done.

I was just answering your question, however.  That's how things go here.  No offense should be taken by the course, nor should such be by the orginator of the thread.  

And it remains true that the universe of people who can respond with anything but "sounds great, hope to see it some day" remains very small.  That's no offense either, just reality.

Congrats on what is said to be a fantastic golf course!  Add me to the huge list of "hope to see it some day" admirers.

TH

[cary lichtenstein]

Eye Candy: I have been using the term to describe beauty in a positive way, like Cameron Diaz or Michelle Pfeiffer

I have used the term to describe Old Head, but then said that the course lacks a number of things, so eye candy is a great starter.

15 at Cypress has eye candy, but is an easy hole. 16 has tons of eye candy and is a great hole.

7 at Pebble has lots of eye candy and can be easy or terrifiyiey depending on the wind.

Catherine Zeta Jones is great eye candy.

The 10th at Friar Head is both great eye candy and a great hole.

[M.W._Burrows]

It's interesting for me to hear how easy people think the National was for them to play.  This year people are averaging approximately 6 shots more per round there and the club champion shot a 74 to win!  I'm wondering when some of you guys who think it's so easy played there last?  

Rich Goodale:

I'm curious what clubs you hit into #3,8,10, and 11 greens at National?

[NAF]

I saw NGLA two years ago at roughly this time of year and very recently and can say the current greenskeeping is much different.  NGLA was much greener then and did not play hard and fast.  When I saw NGLA a few weeks ago the only course I have seen set up that well playing with just the right amound of firm, furious and fast was Royal Melbourne.  In fact the way the greens putted reminded me of Royal Mel.  Bill Salinetti and crew have done an amazing job bringing the playing characteristics of the course back and how they were intended to be.  The removal of the ornamental plants on #9 and #18 are also to be lauded as well as my favorite thing I saw which is the restoration of the beach bunker on the Cape Hole.

I reckoned NGLA was definitely tougher than when I saw it last and that much more fun to play.  I can't tell you how many strokes the difficulty was b/c I don't play there often but I know this.  Before my last trip to NGLA I thought Shinnecock to be the superior course.  I don't anymore.

BTW, I played Shinnecock this past Friday in the winds left over from Hurricane Isabel.  With most fairways only 25 yards or so wide and 35 mph winds, it was a challenge.  Shinnecock has already grown the rough up and it is easily the penalty it should be.  Shinny is also a great deal greener than NGLA.  I don't know if the super will change this practice b/f the Open.

[Patrick_Mucci]

NAF,

Agreed,

Things have changed, for the better.

NGLA isn't as easy as many have been led to believe.

Bill, Matt and the crew have it playing fast, firm and fair, and it is a good test, especially when the WIND is up.

[TEPaul]

Matt Burrows:

Don't even listen to some of these people who comment NGLA is easy--basically they don't know what they're talking about and are all full of hot air. Unfortunately Rich Goodale played NGLA only once and it happened to be a time the course was extremely slow everywhere and probably just after the effects of aeriation or something. The poor man needs to come back and see what real golf there is like under you guys.

Since Matt Burrows probably doesn't feel like blowing his own horn I'll do it for him--it's my understanding the Beach bunker restoration on the Cape Hole was his project! I may be mistaken but I heard his next project is to build railroad sheds to the right of #7 fairway---or at least expand green to the right side of the Eden green.    

It's also my understanding that Bill and Matt are working dedicatedly to enhance the bounce and roll and speed of all NGLA's approaches--a wonderful thing indeed. Make sure those greens only dent to well struck aerial shots too and very lightly dent at that!

Would it be a good and proper thing to rename the "ideal maintenance meld" (for that style of golf course, of course) the "NGLA maintenance meld" because that's where the whole perscription came from in the first place?

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Mirror all of the same, EXCEPT..................

"Shinnecock has already grown the rough up and it is easily the penalty it should be."

Noel, what the HELL is this supposed to mean??

[NAF]

Tommy,

Sorry was too brief.. As others have alluded to, Shinnecock is set up already for the Open.. They had 3 cuts of rough, the short stuff (only maybe 2 yards wide), then the intermediate cut (maybe 2 or 3 yards) and then (boom!) rough I would estimate at 6 inches+ until you get to the tall fescue..It is a penalty for the pros is what I meant.  It is not fun methinks for me nor for the members.  With the course not playing firm, Shinny is a real taskmaster at the moment.  I got away with playing from the deep rough a few times but the only time I could reach a hole from that stuff was on #8 with a wedge in my hands.

I've been fortunate to go around Shinny 5X now vs. 2X at NGLA and I found myself wanting to go over to NGLA after only 3 holes the other day. Especially in the wind we were playing in (35mph).  Shinny is still one of my favorite golf courses no doubt but the way it is set up right now shows the deficiencies in a tournament setup for the average golfer or maybe just the holes in our games!

[NAF]

TEPaul,

Also the fairway has been mowed around the left greenside bunker on #5 (Hogback) bringing it big time into play.  Another kudos to Bill and Matt.

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Yes, Noel, but is that the way Shinnecok should really be?

Or has Jim being in town affected your mind already?

[TEPaul]

Naffer:

I saw that last June on #5. I got lucky and stayed in the clubhouse for about three nights. That way since I get up so early in the morning I actually went out on the course around sunrise each morning in my pajamas (which thankfully don't really look like pajamas) called Matt Burrows or Bill Salinetti and got to hang around with either of them for a few hours every morning looking at various things and talking some architectural and agronomic nonsense--about setting some wild pins et al! Matt Burrows who appears to be a freethinker  said he likes that aspect of NGLA where you might actually see an old guy walking around in his pajamas at daybreak smoking cigarettes and willing to talk endless architecture! I do believe that if any of us had our druthers we might roughen up some of the rough areas and bunker areas a little more too! But all in all I think the course is really singing now!

[Patrick_Mucci]

NAF,

At the present time, Shinnecock may be beyond an amateur's ability to meet the challenge it presents.

[corey miller]

Matt Burrows-My course does not play as fast as it should.  Last year during a drought the course played more F&F(and fun) than in any of the seven years I have been there.  The one "complaint", was that the course played "easier" as a function of playing "shorter".  I do not believe this opinion was based on any evidence but rather members thinking that it must be playing easier because of the longer distances they are hitting the ball with the added roll.



You had mentioned with the more firm conditions that National is playing more difficult.  Any numbers or statistics or evidence at your club might go a long way in changing the wrong-headed thinking at other places.  Do you have statistics on how your course scores changed?  Do your members realize what has happened?  Is there a way you can share with others that are trying to effect change at their home clubs? thanks.

[TEPaul]

"Last year during a drought the course played more F&F(and fun) than in any of the seven years I have been there.  The one "complaint", was that the course played "easier" as a function of playing "shorter".  I do not believe this opinion was based on any evidence but rather members thinking that it must be playing easier because of the longer distances they are hitting the ball with the added roll."

Corey:

For starters, when your course is playing really firm and fast "through the green" as yours was last year, don't forget to encourage your super to firm up those green surfaces until they just lightly "dent" to a well struck aerial shot. In that condition I'll guarantee you that those members who think the course plays easier will NOT continue to think that way!!

[ForkaB]

Matt Burrows

I'll have to guess (it was 2+ years ago) that I hit something like (bad) drive, thinned 7 to about 120 feet short of a far back pin on 3.  2 putted!  8, pretty sure I hacked that one up, left off the tee, got a bogey, all I can remember I Huckaby screaming from the other side of the fairway "This is the Bottle Hole!  This is the Bottle Hole!"  I don't wan't to try to remember any more....  10 I think I hit good drive, good 4 iron to the green.  11, something similar.  Those were the 1-2 I remember as "long" although I wasn't really counting.

As TEP says (even though he wasn't there), they had aerated and watered the fairways, so the course was playing long and slow.  I did 80 or so from the tips with my "C" game, and my "A" game ain't that great!

As far as I'm concerned, however, in terms of golfing enjoyment, size does NOT matter.  That's why I'd love to play NGLA again (fat chance, now....).  But, if you're talking "great", you have to talk "tough."  I don;t see that at NGLA (or Cypress Point, or Merion, or Dornoch) for that matter....).  And yet, for all I know, when fast and firm, NGLA may in fact be much tougher than it is long and slow.  That's the way it is over here in Scotland, anyway.

[THuckaby2]

Rich has interesting memories.  I don't doubt his recount of his play - frankly, I was trying NOT to watch - but me screaming on a golf course?  Never.  That's just me TALKING, Rich.  I kinda have a loud voice, I know.  The guys at the NM trip now know also.

 

TH

[Scott_Burroughs]

Huckaby a loud voice?   All I can say is that, never having heard his voice before, I knew it had to be him in the next room in a certain locker room last December.  

Had to be him....

[TEPaul]

Rich:

Regarding your post #50 and your summation and assumption of the difficulty factor of a course like NGLA to score on when they have it souped up into it's "ideal maintenance meld" of firm and fast (and obviously the other important factors) not playing difficult compared to what you obviously saw there I guess I should remind you not to smoke any of your own exhaust!

You take a guy with a quality tournament track record and really excellent course management skills like a Buddy Marucci who shot in the high 70s trying to qualify for the NGLA singles tournament and you can proabably get a glimpse of the meaning of what Matt Burrows was asking about or perhaps implying.

There may be a couple of guys I know of on here like Slonis or Walsh who might be able to handle Marucci on more days out of the week than about one but I don't believe I'm in the slightest bit able to put you in that category. Dreaming is fine in a golfer as long as he recognizes the differences between dreams and reality!  

The same situation existed at NGLA as did at Seminole. After having played that course hundreds of times and gotten used to a regular scoring band and then recognizing what the differences really are between everyday play and something like what Seminole does in the Coleman or NGLA might in their Singles tourney was a real revelation. Talk about a potential huge difference in scoring expectation!

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