[Patrick_Mucci]

challenging but fun to play ?


Provide examples and elaborate !


Par 3


For me,  #6 at NGLA, the "short" marries the two magnificently because the fun and the challenge exist on the tee shot, recovery and putting


140 from an elevated tee to an enormous green, a green with a series of greens within the general green.


Surrounded by bunkers, many of which are "fed" by the green


Plenty of contour/slope within the green.


And WIND.


The combination in conjunction with the location of the hole make for a very challenging hole, on the tee shot, recovery and putting.


The size of the green in combination with the location of the hole and the wind allow the golfer to hit anything from a sand wedge to a 5-iron.


Miss the green and the challenge and fun remain.


Ditto putting


Being on the green with your tee shot still leaves you at risk for 3 and 4 putting.


Par 4 and 5' to follow

[Keith OHalloran]

Pat,
I would say 11 at Shinnecock for all the same reason. Plus, you can make almost any number on that hole. If you stay on the green, you have a short, but difficult, birdie putt. If you miss the green by a few feet, the adventure begins.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Keith,


Agreed.


I tend to think that the fun factor disapates as the hole lengthens.


Other than Biarritzes, I'm trying to think of par 3's over 200 that are FUN to play.

[Keith OHalloran]

Pat,
What about the 13th at Sand Hills from the back tee? That hole has wind and the do or die aspects.
I do think that My preference,  by a wide margin, would be shorter par 3s.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Keith,


I like the "skyline" nature of # 13, but I'm not so sure that the hole "exudes" fun.


I do, however, love the 5th at Streamsong Blue.


I think the hole radiates fun and challenge

[Peter Pallotta]

Patrick - a lesser known (at least around here) Par 3 is the 6th at Copper Creek, which Ian Andrew designed (while working with Doug Carrick). About 120 yards from the tips, uphill, to a skyline-ish, beautifully contoured and well protected/bunkered green. Distance control and recovery and making putts combine to make it an enjoyable challenge, especially in the context of -- and expectations regarding -- what is for most a PW.   

It is unlike any other hole/shot on the course -- and I think that is one of the goals and measuring sticks of an excellent Par 3.  An architect can design a Par 3 so that every golfer is faced with exactly the same shot (an impossibility everywhere/anywhere else), but to do so and to make it "work" for every golfer takes a lot of skill and imagination.  Ian pulled it off here beautifully

Peter

[Keith OHalloran]

Keith,


I like the "skyline" nature of # 13, but I'm not so sure that the hole "exudes" fun.


I do, however, love the 5th at Streamsong Blue.


I think the hole radiates fun and challenge

Never been to Streamsong, but I think the fun of 13 at Sand Hills comes from the challenge. When the wind is blowing in your face, you can have driver to a very demanding skyline green.

[Rob Marshall]

3rd hole Torrey Pines South. 175 yards downhill looking over the ocean straight into La Jolla. Wind is a big factor. Go long or left and you're in the barranca. Short your into fairly deep bunker. Bail out area to the right gives you a chance to get up and down. The green is no push over. Really a fun challenging hole IMO.

[Patrick_Mucci]

How could I forget the 7th at PBGC ?
 
Especially with a little breeze.
 
At what distance does a par 3 lose the fun factor ?

[Sven Nilsen]

It doesn't.  12 at Bandon Trails and 10 at Pac Dunes can both play over 200 yards, and they're both fun.


Sven

[Rob Marshall]

How could I forget the 7th at PBGC ?
 
Especially with a little breeze.
 
At what distance does a par 3 lose the fun factor ?

I would have loved to play 7 with a good bit of breeze. It was a flip SW when I played it. Still fun because of the history and location. But not any great challenge.

[James Brown]

How could I forget the 7th at PBGC ?
 
Especially with a little breeze.
 
At what distance does a par 3 lose the fun factor ?

The outer limit on the distance no longer being fun is when you feel like you have little chance to hit a good shot and will also be penalized severely for hitting a poor one.   I really like longer part threes where I can make a free swing with a hybrid where there is plenty of room and a miss means a bogey at worst unless you do something stupid and a decent chance to make a par. 

[Peter Pallotta]

Interesting question about distance.

As I mentioned, I think Par 3s give the architect the rare opportunity to present to ALL golfers the same basic shot using basically the same club and from the same tee.  A good architect might really make something interesting and outstanding of that opportunity -- if he has the style/nerve to make it a very short Par 3.

As soon as you make the hole 200+ yards, it can still be a wonderful hole of course, and with multiple tees you can have golfers of all skill levels play it and enjoy it. But then you have what golfers encounter pretty much on every Par 4, no matter what tees they play, i.e. after their tee shots, they and their lower handicap friends are all, say, 180 yards out -- but one of them is using a 7 iron on the approach and the other a 5 and the other 3 iron and another a fairway wood. 

Again, the very long Par 3 can be great fund and challenge and a top flight hole; but only the short Par 3 can equalize the playing field in a way that no other hole/shot can -- except for putts of course, with I think is telling.   

[Sean_A]

If there is room for the 290 yard par 4, there should be room for the 240 par 3...especially if like me, you want to see five 3s on courses (how else can 100 to 240 yards be covered?)  Indeed, that 100 yard range between 225 and 325 could do with a lot more exploitation.   That said, I am not sure I have played a really good 240ish par 3. 

Ciao

[Mark Chaplin]

The Postage Stamp is a winner especially as it's ultra short and an 8 is easily achieved with the same ball.

[Jim Nugent]

Other than Biarritzes, I'm trying to think of par 3's over 200 that are FUN to play.

I haven't played it myself, but #16 at CPC looks like an exhilarating blast.  You get to choose the heroic shot or the safe shot, in one of the most stunning settings in all golf. 

[Michael Felton]

I'm quite partial to the 13th hole at The Addington in Surrey in the category of fun long par threes. Ran's review on here has a picture of the hole at the beginning of the review. I think the fun of long par threes is when you hit a good shot and hit the green. As is described in Ran's review of the hole.


Another par 3 I think gets better as it gets longer (within reason and depending on the wind) is the 11th at Royal St George's. The really fun way to play that hole is to chase one up from the front, up that bank and onto the back bit of the green. Much harder to do that if it played shorter (or at least, it's rarely the right shot to play). From 220 though, especially downwind, you have little choice but to run it up there. Then you have to judge the line right to avoid the left hand bunkers. Great fun IMO.

[Jason Topp]

Length - I prefer long or short.  It seems to me that so many par threes are in the 180-200 yard range (from my tees) which means a hybrid or long iron (for me).   

For long par threes, I really like those that offer a bailout but a significant downside to the bailout.  Coore/Crenshaw holes with a big hump on the bailout side are a nice example of that approach.   

For short par threes - I like holes with big greens but a nasty putt if one hits it in the wrong spot.   Patrick's example of a short is a good one.  There is a par 3 at Wildhorse that presents a similar type of challenge.  The big slope of the Eden is another nice approach that gets such a result.

[Ian Andrew]

The really long ones matter as much as the really short ones
Psychologically these are about overcoming the challenge


Some great long ones


Jasper Park 4th - 240
Pine Valley 5th - 225?
Kawartha 6th - 215 - but very uphill
Pine Ridge 9th - 235 - uphil to a wild Ross crown green (better than it sounds)
Capliano 16th - 230?
Ballybunnion 15th - 220?
Merion 17th - 220?
Cypress Point 16th


(I typed that out one after the other without trying)
... you realize the list is incredibly long and high quality threes over 200 yards.

[Andrew Carr]

The really long ones matter as much as the really short ones
Psychologically these are about overcoming the challenge


Some great long ones


Jasper Park 4th - 240
Pine Valley 5th - 225?
Kawartha 6th - 215 - but very uphill
Pine Ridge 9th - 235 - uphil to a wild Ross crown green (better than it sounds)
Capliano 16th - 230?
Ballybunnion 15th - 220?
Merion 17th - 220?
Cypress Point 16th


(I typed that out one after the other without trying)
... you realize the list is incredibly long and high quality threes over 200 yards.

A few more to the list...


Pasatiempo 3rd - 214
Timber Point Gibraltar (Blue 5th/Original 15th) - 207
Olympic Club 3rd - 247


I can't personally attest to the greatness of the 8th at Oakmont, but they played that at approx. 300 during the 2007 US Open...

[Greg Krueger]

One of the most fun long par 3's that I have played is #5 Dismal Red. Played it 5 times over 2 days and hit driver twice and 3-wood 3 times. At 240 yards it is not as difficult as you might think. It is somewhat of a punchbowl green where you can funnel the ball in from the left as well as shots slightly long will trickle on. Just don't be short right where a huge and deep blowout bunker can lead to big numbers. I looked forward to playing this hole every time I left the all world par 4 4th.

[Thomas Dai]

Some pretty good combinations of long 'uns and short 'uns on the same Royal course -


Royal County Down - 4th and 7th
Royal Portrush - 14th and 3rd
Royal Aberdeen - 3rd and 8th
Royal Porthcawl - 4th and 7th


Atb

[Keith Phillips]

The 9th at Jupiter Hills is 'fun and challenging' - uphill, all carry over a waste area to a small dramatic green, exposed to ocean winds - 140-160 from the member tees but plays two clubs longer.  I find the depth perception very challenging for this uphill shot - hit a great 8-iron the other day and was literally thinking ace...ball came up 30' short of the green in the large fronting bunker.

[Patrick_Mucci]

"Challenging" and being considered a "quality" or "high quality" hole doesn't equate to "fun".

How many who have played # 16 at COC, when stepping  on to that tee, think, "what a fun hole this is going to be" ?  ?  ?

"Exciting", "Challenging", yes.
"Fun" ?  ?  ?

[Niall C]

A lot of the courses mentioned on here are great courses but the thing about par 3's is that you can easily have a great par 3 on an average or less than average course, more so I think than say par 4's or par 5's. As to what makes them great well I think the great thing about them is they can be built on gash ground and on otherwise un-useable terrain (that is unuseable perhaps for par 4's and par 5's) that can be wild and interesting. Probably more than par 4's and par 5's, it's the lie of the land that makes them.


Niall

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