[Andrew Carr]

"Challenging" and being considered a "quality" or "high quality" hole doesn't equate to "fun".

How many who have played # 16 at COC, when stepping  on to that tee, think, "what a fun hole this is going to be" ?  ?  ?

"Exciting", "Challenging", yes.
"Fun" ?  ?  ?

I entirely agree with your position that more fun holes are found at less than 200 yards than at greater, but you don't think 16 is fun with that setting?!  I can't think of many holes where I've had more fun.  But that's just one man's opinion.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Andrew,


The walk from 14 green to 15 tee to 15 green to 16 tee is one of the most exhilarating in all of golf.


It's filled with anticipation and excitement, but once you arrive at the 16th tee and look at the chasm in front of you, the green in the distance with the wind in your face, "fun" isn't the first word that comes to mind.


It's an incredibly challenging shot in one of the greatest settings in all of golf.


# 17 at PBGC is a challenging hole, but pales in comparison to the challenge presented by # 16 at CPC.

[Andrew Carr]

Pat,


That is true.  It is incredibly challenging but maybe not fun like the 5th at Yale or the 17th at Creek or any number of shorter holes.


Maybe I'm just getting to the crux of this thread, but why is it that a shorter all carry par 3 like those two is more fun than a longer all carry par 3 like 16 at CPC?  I agree with the position, but fail to understand the reason in that preference.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Andrew,
 
The short par 3 requires only accuracy.
 
The long par 3 requires both accuracy and length.
 
The great majority of golfers have the ability to reach a short par 3.
 
The great majority of golfers do not have the ability to reach a long par 3.
 
And, the great majority of golfers do not possess the ability to combine length with accuracy.
 
Therefore, the demand on their game, as presented by a long par 3, is beyond their ability, ergo, no fun.
 
P.S.
 
Anyone who views this issue in the context of the PGA Tour Pro's game is a moron.

[Thomas Dai]

I suspect that some of the longer par-3's mentioned within this thread would still be damn good holes, maybe even top-notch holes, even if they are played as short par-3's!
Atb

[Patrick_Mucci]

Thomas,
 
The 4th hole at Mountain Ridge is a world class par 3, but, at 224 yards, it's beyond the ability of most.
 
Even at 170 it's a great hole.
 
At 150 or less it would remain a great hole, the green complex is that good.

[Andrew Carr]

So are these longer par 3s only fun for people with the ability to play them or are they not even fun for them?

[Jim Hoak]

I like all kind of par-3's--short, long, big greens, small greens, bunkered, open, etc.  What I don't like is 4 par-3's that look the same and are of the same length.  Variety is the spice of life--and golf.
If I was forced to pick the most fun--I'd say 150 yards with a great green complex, where pins can be tucked.

[Patrick_Mucci]

So are these longer par 3s only fun for people with the ability to play them or are they not even fun for them?

Andrew,

You'd have to ask the PGA Tour Pros how much fun they have playing 240-280 yard par 3's.

They hold little in the way of fun for me.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Jim,

Agree about diverse yardages.

Preakness Hills in Wayne, NJ had great variety in their par 3's

# 6  200-235
# 8  140-160
# 16 160-195
# 18  120-140

I like par 3's where finesse, not distance is the primary requirement.

140 to 180 is my preference range, with 140-160 being my ideal.

[Jay Mickle]

At 145 yards from the back tees the 6th at Roaring Gap is a hole that encompasses all that one could want in a par 3. A downhill shot to a volcano green provides so many of the attributes previously mentioned plus a visual disconnect between what one sees and the shot one perceives to be required.

[Richard Hetzel]

I tend to think that the fun factor disapates as the hole lengthens.

I totally agree with that statement Pat. Also, too short, like under 100 yards, it  isn't really that fun either. Here is an example of a pretty good (IMO) par 3 hole that at the tips is no more than 130 yards max. Fairly narrow, a nice meandering stream down the middle to the front and right of the green as a natural hazard. The hole really offers nowhere to bail out left (cart path), right (OB woods), or long (trees and another hole's green). The green is of an average size and not all that deep or wide. It is about as straightforward, and still challenging as you can get.
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