[Jason Thurman]

The 13th at Wolf Run is the most photographed and perhaps controversial hole on the golf course. A visually stunning par 3, it plays 220 yards (almost 250 from the tips!) from one ridgetop to another, over a valley some 35 feet below. A sea of bunkers cuts into the hill in front of the green, creating an amazing photo opportunity and some of the most difficult recovery shots on the course, especially for a player who badly mishits their tee shot.


How would you fix the hole?

[Tom_Doak]

Well, it depends on who it's supposed to be for.  Wolf Run was always intended to be a course for a macho membership, that doesn't worry about playability for amateurs.  [The five holes after this each require a pretty big forced carry of one kind or another.]  For them, it's probably fine.


For anyone else, I'd put in a bit more fairway over the top of the hill, and make the front left bunker a bit more forgiving, so someone could try to run the ball into the green from the left.

[Ken Fry]

Jason,

When we played in October, I stand by my comments about #13:

- Bright white sand doesn't fit the environment.  Too shocking visually.
- Eliminate the frivolous additional bunkers on the left.  A more natural look would be more pleasing.
- Create a more forgiving front to front/right bail out area.  Remove the two trees and maintain the grass around the bunkers in standard "rough" height.  It would still make for a difficult up and down but finding the ball would be easy.

Ken

[Phil McDade]

Jason:


As Tom notes, context is important here.


But.....


Taken in isolation, and IF (I've never been there...) there is room back of the tee, and it doesn't create too much of a walk-back from the previous green, I wonder if you could make this a kind of driveable par 4, pulpit-to-pulpit, so that it becomes the kind of short par 4 resembling the 15th at Erin Hills that you and I have debated. Then the golfer is faced with that appears to be a truly driveable par 4 with much risk, but the possible reward of a birdie/maybe eagle, OR, a simple iron drive to a smallish fairway with a tough little, exacting uphill pitch.


Still would require some softening on the left side, I think.

[Kyle Henderson]

Real life


My rendering

[Sean_A]

Kyle

I would go even further...10 bunkers removed.  Keep the left front greenside bunker, but shaped more like the right bunker.  Jeez....who thinks to do bunkering like this?  Its shameful.  Just as bad though is the cart path blasting over the hill. 

Ciao

[Jason Thurman]

Sean, I really don't know where else the cart path could go, and I doubt many people stand on that tee and say "Look at that cart path." It's one of the perks of having 11 bunkers staring at the tee - they sort of capture a player's focus. The photo shown is taken from the back tees, which are left of the three sets that mortals can survive. From those tees, the cart path view is mostly blocked by trees left of the tee box.


Phil, there definitely isn't room to move the tee boxes back. Wolf Run has a surprisingly compact routing and the tightest spot on the course is the knoll where 13 tee, 12 green, 15 green, and 16 tee all sit.


It's notable that you mention softening the left side. One of the secrets of this hole is that it has a kickplate to the left of the green that will send balls onto the putting surface. On my first play, I hooked my tee shot up near the big tree on the hill left of the green. As we approached the putting surface, we noticed a ball sitting a foot from the hole. It was mine. It had fed in from the sideboard for a kick-in birdie which I may never replicate. I'm usually thrilled with bogey.


I don't think the kickplate is currently big enough to be a viable option for a player to use purposefully. I might like to see the tree on top of the hill removed and the kickplate extended to where the tree currently stands. You wouldn't be able to see it from the tee, but a smart player with some local knowledge would be able to aim up there and both shorten the carry needed as well as feed a shot onto the surface, though I have to admit that I really enjoy the hole in its current configuration despite its difficulty.

[Kyle Henderson]

Kyle

I would go even further...10 bunkers removed.  Keep the left front greenside bunker, but shaped more like the right bunker.  Jeez....who thinks to do bunkering like this?  Its shameful.  Just as bad though is the cart path blasting over the hill. 

Ciao

As requested.

[K Rafkin]

To start off I'd remove those 8 bunkers on the hill.  Those bunkers don't make the hole any more difficult for the scratch golfer, but completely screw over the 15 handicap.  Then id go ahead and remove the bunker short of the green side bunkers.  Once the other 8 bunkers are gone it will look silly out there on its lonesome. 


Next I'd go ahead and cut down a few dozen of those trees.  Its hard to tell right now as there are no leaves, but i have a feeling that those trees tighten up the tee shot quite a bit.  From an aerial view the tree to the right of the green seems to be the biggest culprit.

Once i cut down the tree on the hill i'd move and enlarge the green to the left so that the view of the green would be partially blind.  Both bunkers will be visible from the tee or ate last mostly visible.  This should add a little bit of excitement.


Additionally id give a little bit of space to miss right or left.


The one part about the hole that i do like is that it (at least from the aerial) appears as though long is a decent miss.  Offering up some space to miss long is under rated and not common enough.  Too many holes on too many courses have a "long is dead" policy.  This explains why I'm leaving both bunkers in front.  Although I'd usually like to have a decent miss short or long on such a long par 3, this par three now is about clubbing up and going for it, if you go long no big deal.  You're never going to make a hole in 1 on a long hole without enough club.


...And thats how i'd fix the hole.  However my intention was to make the hole better.  If you think the hole is "broken" because its too easy then id go ahead and throw a bakers dozen more bunkers in there. 

[archie_struthers]

 




You guys beat me to it ! 


Extend the kick plate on the left side while removing the short bunkers. Perfect. Wouldn't rip out the right bunker as the rough is probably more difficult and harder to maintain .


In that it's a longish par three you might want to extend and raise the back left of the green , allowing for a little more latitude for someone who flies it a little lower.


Nice graphics Kyle !

[Alex Miller]

Kyle, I like your rendition. I see similarities to LACC N #11 if done correctly, and that's a tremendous par 3 (in every sense). Only change to yours is eliminating or moving the central bunker as it seems out of place / intrusive. Perhaps down the hill a touch since the hill is 220+ yards. Really well done!

[Sean_A]

Kyle

I would go even further...10 bunkers removed.  Keep the left front greenside bunker, but shaped more like the right bunker.  Jeez....who thinks to do bunkering like this?  Its shameful.  Just as bad though is the cart path blasting over the hill. 

Ciao

As requested.

Cheers...I was thinking that the one bunker should be the left front bunker, but yours set back on the hill may be better. 

Jason

Yes, I realize about the path situation...I am simply highlighting how crazy having carts can be.  It isn't really the carts that is the problem....

Ciao

[Mark Pritchett]

I would not change one thing about that hole.  It is iconic to Wolf Run and what's wrong with a course asking a player to execute a tough shot?

[Nigel Islam]

I'm kind of with Mark on this one. I think making a bail out area left would allow for a smart player to catch the kickplate if gets lucky.  As it stands now the best miss is the bunker you hit it in the day we played. The extra bunkers are certainly overkill, but hey that's why we have memorable holes and courses.

[Jason Thurman]

The one part about the hole that i do like is that it (at least from the aerial) appears as though long is a decent miss.  Offering up some space to miss long is under rated and not common enough.  Too many holes on too many courses have a "long is dead" policy.  This explains why I'm leaving both bunkers in front.  Although I'd usually like to have a decent miss short or long on such a long par 3, this par three now is about clubbing up and going for it, if you go long no big deal.  You're never going to make a hole in 1 on a long hole without enough club.

...And thats how i'd fix the hole.  However my intention was to make the hole better.  If you think the hole is "broken" because its too easy then id go ahead and throw a bakers dozen more bunkers in there.

I recall drinking a beer with a buddy of mine last summer and mentioning that "You know, there's all kinds of room to miss long on 13. That's the play - you have to miss long if you're going to miss." He shook his head and replied "Who in the hell misses long on a 250 yard par 3?" You're right though - long leaves a difficult up-and-down as there's a severe dropoff to the swale you can see behind the green from a satellite image, but it's an easy bogey. The two fronting bunkers are the best places to miss if you want to save par, but long is the second best and a good way to avoid a big number.


And trust me, no one thinks the hole is too easy, though it may be the easiest hole in the stretch from 12-15...

[Kyle Harris]

Nice Groupthink on this one.

Give everyone a free hand and they turn the hole into a bad Redan.

The thing is fine as is, I like the bunkers because they cause your eye to sweep left to right and make the target look a bit more intimidating.

[Josh Tarble]

Jason,

I, like you, remember your first shot on 13 pretty vividly.  I'm pretty sure I try to replicate that somehow everytime I play. 

I don't think anyone would know this without playing the hole, but I would change nothing with the bunkering or the left side...but I would raise the area behind the green to roughly level with the green.  I will argue to anyone that going long is WAY worse than a front bunker.  I don't think it's an easy bogey at all.  With the slope of the green you have to hit a perfect shot or its rolling back to your feet or rolling into the front bunker...it's a brutal place to miss.

I love the demand the hole asks, I would just make the long miss a slightly better option.


Edit:  I saw Ken's post and it would be nice if it were a bit easier to find balls short right...but there are a lot of places at Wolf that it would be nice to find balls easier.

The other change I might institute would be maintain the valley as fairway.  Then if you really can't make the green, at least you have a spot to layup, but as Tom says, that's not really Wolf is it?

[Josh Tarble]

Also, the last time I played the hole, 2 of us went long - both double bogies.  1 went into the fronting bunker - bogey.  The only par on the hole was the guy who fanned a 3 wood into #2 fairway.  It was amazing.

[Matthew Sander]

A little confusion based on the photo...why is it difficult to find balls that finish short-right?

[Pat Burke]

make it 150-160

[Josh Tarble]

A little confusion based on the photo...why is it difficult to find balls that finish short-right?

The grass between the bunkers is some of the thickest on the course...if your ball doesn't find a bunker, it can be really difficult to locate your ball.

[Josh Tarble]

Jason,

I must ask, why do you want to change it anyway?  It is legitimately one of the holes I look forward to playing the most each time I get up to Wolf. 

I also have to say if you can't hit a hybrid 230-240 (tips) you shouldn't be playing back there anyway.

[Matthew Sander]

A little confusion based on the photo...why is it difficult to find balls that finish short-right?

The grass between the bunkers is some of the thickest on the course...if your ball doesn't find a bunker, it can be really difficult to locate your ball.

Thanks, Josh. I guess the severity of the regular rough doesn't come through in the photo (not surprising).

[Josh Tarble]

To be fair, it looks to be a photo from fall or early spring when it would be down a bit.  This photo give a bit more idea of the severity.  The striped cut is normal rough height (2"-4" I'd guess)

[Jason Thurman]

Jason,

I must ask, why do you want to change it anyway?  It is legitimately one of the holes I look forward to playing the most each time I get up to Wolf. 

I also have to say if you can't hit a hybrid 230-240 (tips) you shouldn't be playing back there anyway.

Are you kidding me? I love the hole! The look on a guest's face when you're walking up 3 fairway and they see it for the first time is priceless, and it has a lot more subtlety around the green than it appears from the tee.


But a photo was posted in another thread and a few people reacted negatively, so I thought it would be fun to give it its own thread and hear what others would have done differently. My reaction to most of the ideas mirrors Kyle Harris' - give a bunch of GCA guys free reign on a one-of-a-kind hole and they'll give you a dime-a-dozen replacement.


I see some merit in Pat Burke's suggestion - it would be lots of fun from 170 - but doing it here would require a ridiculous amount of earth moving. The hole is 200-250 because that's the width of the chasm. To shorten it would require "moving" the knoll that the green sits on forward, which would probably cost more than Wolf Run's entire original (and surprisingly modest) construction budget. I do wish there was a way to make it more playable for a weak player. As you and I have talked about before, I have uncles, a father-in-law, and a mother who all want to play Wolf Run someday, but I can't figure out how some of them would survive 13. Most of the holes out there are playable for a slow swing speed player, even if some practically demand that a short hitter pick a teeing ground in the fairway. 13 doesn't really offer a creative alternate teeing ground though.


I think it's a fantastic hole that took real vision and guts to locate and build. And while I would usually think 11 bunkers is overkill, I can't help but think it works here based on the reactions I continually hear from guests. Still, it's fun to hear what others would suggest.

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