[Andrew Carr]

I saw North Shore Country Club (Glen Head, NY) both before and after RGD's redesign and was amazed at how they improved the Biarritz and created a Sahara.  I have a soft spot for the Macdonald/Raynor courses.  I think the greatest Redan is Piping Rock Club's 3rd, the Redan (9th) at North Shore was not in the same league prior to Mr. Doak's work.


From my perspective, there appears to be enough grade to deepen the front bunker and enough land behind the existing green to deepen the putting surface, as it’s very narrow, but neither were done.  After the work was completed it appears the Redan was completely untouched and I can't help but wonder why.

[Jeff Evagues]

I also think highly of the 3rd at Piping Rock but have not played North Shore. Do you have a photo?

[Jon Cavalier]

Here you go:

[Tim_Weiman]

Never seen North Shore, but based on this picture the hole looks pretty cool to me. A Redan? Yes, but one with its own character, it appears.

[Joe Bausch]

Many photos of North Shore, back when I took too many pics of grass at my feet (grin):

http://xchem.villanova.edu/~bausch/images/albums/NorthShore/

[Tim_Weiman]

Many photos of North Shore, back when I took too many pics of grass at my feet (grin):

http://xchem.villanova.edu/~bausch/images/albums/NorthShore/

Thanks for bringing these pictures to our attention. Looks like a really nice piece of property and a course that would be fun to play over and over again.

[Robert Mercer Deruntz]

Though I  think that PRC's 3rd may be the best of the Redans, I have played the 9th at least 50 times and find it to be a wonderful hole.  The kicker works very well,  and though the left bunker may not be super deep, good luck scoring a sandy!

[Andrew Carr]

Thank you Jon & Joe.  I unfortunately can't find any of the pictures I took while there either before or after renovation.  Yes, I agree it is a fine hole, just not up to the potential that I feel it has.  I am confused why the bunker floor wasn't lowered down the hill with a larger footprint.  I feel that scale would make the shot appear as intimidating as it actually is.


North Shore really is a wonderful course that benefited greatly from the attention both Mr. Zucker and RGD gave it.  It's also worth noting that Mr. Doak's hunch regarding North Shore in the Original Confidential Guide was correct.  I'm sure this topic has been covered before on this site, but the Club for years attributed the course to Tillinghast.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Yes, North Shore has been discussed here before...37 page thread!


http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,42325.0.html


Here's the story in a nutshell:

http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052748704207504575129910042526320

[Tom_Doak]

Andrew:

We did not have an unlimited budget at North Shore, and it was essential to keep nine holes in play throughout the project, which precluded any work on #9.  It is #1 on a short list of holes I'd like to address "eventually ", but there's been no clamor to do so.  One reason we built the extra hole between 6 & 7 was so we could take other holes out of play in the future.

[Andrew Carr]

Thank you Mr. Doak for answering a curiosity I've had for years.  That absolutely makes sense.  The 9th is a fine hole as is, especially relative to the other holes that were reviewed pre-renovation.

Was there any thought to moving the maintenance shed on the inside of the dogleg on the 11th to the absolute outside (edge of the property line) or further inside (closer to the parking lot) and using that steep terrain to make a version of The Alps?  I'm sure budget constraints wouldn't allow for that much change, but that green-site screams to me that it should be The Alps. Maybe I'm forcing a template onto the land, which is the criticism some place on the Macdonald/Raynor/Banks team, but selfishly I feel that it works.

Obviously the 11th isn't the best on the course and that type of redesign/renovation would remove a lot of negative commentary about the course I continually hear when I say that I enjoy North Shore Country Club.

Additionally, is there any talk of timeline for a revisit to North Shore, with Mr. Zucker seemingly now focused on his most recent purchase L.I. National?

[Tom_Doak]

Thank you Mr. Doak for answering a curiosity I've had for years.  That absolutely makes sense.  The 9th is a fine hole as is, especially relative to the other holes that were reviewed pre-renovation.

Was there any thought to moving the maintenance shed on the inside of the dogleg on the 11th to the absolute outside (edge of the property line) or further inside (closer to the parking lot) and using that steep terrain to make a version of The Alps?  I'm sure budget constraints wouldn't allow for that much change, but that green-site screams to me that it should be The Alps. Maybe I'm forcing a template onto the land, which is the criticism some place on the Macdonald/Raynor/Banks team, but selfishly I feel that it works.

Obviously the 11th isn't the best on the course and that type of redesign/renovation would remove a lot of negative commentary about the course I continually hear when I say that I enjoy North Shore Country Club.

The 11th is another hole I'd love to work on but our hands are tied there.  A town line boundary runs through the middle of the course, and #11 is on the side where taking out any large trees is just impossible due to a tree ordinance.  I had never thought of the hole as an Alps hole:  it's possible, but not possible as long as the town continues to refuse exceptions to its tree ordinance.

[Andrew Carr]

Thank you Mr. Doak for answering a curiosity I've had for years.  That absolutely makes sense.  The 9th is a fine hole as is, especially relative to the other holes that were reviewed pre-renovation.

Was there any thought to moving the maintenance shed on the inside of the dogleg on the 11th to the absolute outside (edge of the property line) or further inside (closer to the parking lot) and using that steep terrain to make a version of The Alps?  I'm sure budget constraints wouldn't allow for that much change, but that green-site screams to me that it should be The Alps. Maybe I'm forcing a template onto the land, which is the criticism some place on the Macdonald/Raynor/Banks team, but selfishly I feel that it works.

Obviously the 11th isn't the best on the course and that type of redesign/renovation would remove a lot of negative commentary about the course I continually hear when I say that I enjoy North Shore Country Club.

The 11th is another hole I'd love to work on but our hands are tied there.  A town line boundary runs through the middle of the course, and #11 is on the side where taking out any large trees is just impossible due to a tree ordinance.  I had never thought of the hole as an Alps hole:  it's possible, but not possible as long as the town continues to refuse exceptions to its tree ordinance.
[/quote

I'm assume you are referring to the Sea Cliff Tree Ordinance.  There is a very bohemian culture in that town, so I would assume that having the town line redrawn would be easier than having that panel of 3 make an exception to the ordinance.

Either way, the course is so much more fun post-renovation, so thank you.  I haven't been out there in a few years, but it was great last time I was.

[Robert Mercer Deruntz]

The golden opportunity to address the 11th was missed during the aftermath of Sandy when many surviving healthy trees ended up going through the shredders in countless Roslyn yards, not to mention several neighboring courses that took advantage of the chaos to remove problematic trees.

[Tom_Doak]

The golden opportunity to address the 11th was missed during the aftermath of Sandy when many surviving healthy trees ended up going through the shredders in countless Roslyn yards, not to mention several neighboring courses that took advantage of the chaos to remove problematic trees.

Robert:


It's easier to get away with that stuff when you're not just completing a project where they are paying close attention to you.


For example, the town of Southampton was measuring exactly how much area of clearing and of native revegetation we were doing at Sebonack, the very same year that The National Golf Links of America took down every single tree on their property, without hearing boo from the town!

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