How to make a golf course unaffordable

[Jason Way]

I understand that but do they have a program such as the sustainable golf one of the R&A? Are they going around the regional associations promoting their message.

They do, and they are, Jon.  Sustainability of the game, from all of its perspectives, is the theme of everything they are doing right now.  They are studying it from all angles - participation (youth golf, pace of play, etc), finance, design, agronomy, environmental sensitivity - and doing their best to push their findings down to the local level where they can be translated into action by course operators.


Their announcement re: their research partnership with University of Minnesota (http://www.usga.org/articles/2015/10/research-partnership-to-launch-with-university-of-minnesota.html) puts the sustainability umbrella over their upcoming work.  Same thing with the joint-ASGCA planning grant program they are set to announce this coming week.


It's easy to be cynical and say that until they address the ball the rest of this is just window dressing.  But I think that's an oversimplification and doesn't give them enough credit for the work they are doing.  Based on my interaction with the USGA over the past 6 months, I suspect that they have quite a few interesting campaigns in the works, and this article is one very small example.

[Jon Wiggett]

Jason,

I am not being at all cynical. Sometimes things are very simple such as the case  for and solution for shortening the ball. Everything points towards shortening the ball, it would be very easy to do and it would be very cheap to do. A no brainer you would think, it should be their first port of call and yet it has never been seriously addressed in public by either the R&A or USGA.

Jon

[Joe Hellrung]

The picture in that article says a lot.  Tiered bunkers that look like they were drawn by a little kid, heavily manicured, while featuring a plastic storage bubble eyesore in the background.  Love it.

Bob,

   Great post, I love the sarcasm.  Another avenue for people to get it.  I was or am going to make a postcard of a failed Country Club trying to advertise for new members while at the same time repenting for their elitism.

[Matt Frey, PGA]

Great piece, although they didn't mention one of my pet peeves: the golf car path curb.


I prefer walking, but when I have to take a golf car, the curbs are bothersome and dangerous (both to the golfer and the golf car itself).

[Justin VanLanduit]

Great piece, although they didn't mention one of my pet peeves: the golf car path curb.


I prefer walking, but when I have to take a golf car, the curbs are bothersome and dangerous (both to the golfer and the golf car itself).

Yes, curbs can be quite bothersome but it can also save a lot of turfgrass by keeping the cart on the path.  I'd be willing to bet; if you were to look at turf say next to a tee where there was a curb, grass would be in much better shape than one, say without a curb.  Seems as though when there is no curb people always get those tires just off the path and when repeatedly done kills/damages turf.  Curbing serves a great purpose to control traffic, water runoff, but can create great maintenance by having to edge and pull weeds from where curb and path join. 

[Don Mahaffey]

Hey, someone stole my list from 2009....well some of my list

http://nuzzogolfcoursedesign.blogspot.com/2009/12/19-things-you-can-do-to-save-cost-on.html

[BCowan]

Great piece, although they didn't mention one of my pet peeves: the golf car path curb.


I prefer walking, but when I have to take a golf car, the curbs are bothersome and dangerous (both to the golfer and the golf car itself).

Yes, curbs can be quite bothersome but it can also save a lot of turfgrass by keeping the cart on the path.  I'd be willing to bet; if you were to look at turf say next to a tee where there was a curb, grass would be in much better shape than one, say without a curb.  Seems as though when there is no curb people always get those tires just off the path and when repeatedly done kills/damages turf.  Curbing serves a great purpose to control traffic, water runoff, but can create great maintenance by having to edge and pull weeds from where curb and path join.

Justin,

   Thanks for posting this.  After being low guy on the totem poll my first year doing grounds crew back in the day, my back was soar after using a sod cutter to strip the compacted soil around cart paths from lazy cartballer unable to keep it on the pavement.  Thanks for speaking up for the little guys. 

[Kalen Braley]

I've always wondered if human nature wasn't to blame for this....

Think of how we've been taught and conditioned to drive a vehicle normally.  When you are moving, one feels free to move along and use the road as you see fit.  But if you have to stop or pullover, the courteous thing to do is get off on the side of the road, so traffic behind can pass thru safely.

Now I know its not a road, and its a different situation being on the course, but I'm guessing this happens subconsciously, especially when our mind also subconsciously recognizes how most cart paths are only little more than 1 cart wide.

hence the curbs are needed near tee boxes and greens to prevent this programming from taking over...

Just a thought...

[Mike_Young]

I understand that but do they have a program such as the sustainable golf one of the R&A? Are they going around the regional associations promoting their message.

They do, and they are, Jon.  Sustainability of the game, from all of its perspectives, is the theme of everything they are doing right now.  They are studying it from all angles - participation (youth golf, pace of play, etc), finance, design, agronomy, environmental sensitivity - and doing their best to push their findings down to the local level where they can be translated into action by course operators.


Their announcement re: their research partnership with University of Minnesota (http://www.usga.org/articles/2015/10/research-partnership-to-launch-with-university-of-minnesota.html) puts the sustainability umbrella over their upcoming work.  Same thing with the joint-ASGCA planning grant program they are set to announce this coming week.


It's easy to be cynical and say that until they address the ball the rest of this is just window dressing.  But I think that's an oversimplification and doesn't give them enough credit for the work they are doing.  Based on my interaction with the USGA over the past 6 months, I suspect that they have quite a few interesting campaigns in the works, and this article is one very small example.

Jason,

They may say they are pushing such but I don't see it.  Everything they are saying goes against what they are.  Universities and supts at the top of the food chain will not be the ones who actually obtain sustainability.  It sounds good and makes great corporate feel good promos much like First Tee but it doesn't work.  Some of the best examles I know of the process working are where some prominent supts quit their big jobs after years and purchased their own courses.  You would be amazed....

[Thomas Dai]

Jason,
I am not being at all cynical. Sometimes things are very simple such as the case  for and solution for shortening the ball. Everything points towards shortening the ball, it would be very easy to do and it would be very cheap to do. A no brainer you would think, it should be their first port of call and yet it has never been seriously addressed in public by either the R&A or USGA.
Jon

We spend money on equipment to hit the ball further and then spend money on lengthening and making courses more difficult.

Probably pretty much impossible to arrive at a figure, but do folk reckon there would be more or less people working for the equipment companies, the R&A/USGA, various golf associations, the media, architect and design practices, construction outfits and course maintenance crews, materials and equipment suppliers etc etc etc etc than do now if equipment rules and maintenance practices etc had been frozen in time on say Jan 1st 1980*?

atb


(An arbitrary date picked by me from the days when wooden heads, steel shafts, balata balls and wedges with no more than 56* dominated the game)

[JC Jones]

blow the dew off the course in the morning as opposed to waiting for the sun to take care of that an hour later

[Matt Frey, PGA]

Great piece, although they didn't mention one of my pet peeves: the golf car path curb.


I prefer walking, but when I have to take a golf car, the curbs are bothersome and dangerous (both to the golfer and the golf car itself).

Yes, curbs can be quite bothersome but it can also save a lot of turfgrass by keeping the cart on the path.  I'd be willing to bet; if you were to look at turf say next to a tee where there was a curb, grass would be in much better shape than one, say without a curb.  Seems as though when there is no curb people always get those tires just off the path and when repeatedly done kills/damages turf.  Curbing serves a great purpose to control traffic, water runoff, but can create great maintenance by having to edge and pull weeds from where curb and path join.

Very good point, but you don't see as much turf wear on courses no cart paths at all (of course, one would have to consider volume). Maybe the answer to better turf conditions is no paths at all with sufficient training, signage / rope-offs?

[Mike_Young]

Matt has a good point.  I have often thought that no cart paths work just as well if you just close on the days it is too wet for carts.  I would bet that over a 10 year period the lost revenue from closing would be minimal compared to the initial cost and upkeep of cart paths.  If carts can be controlled at the distribution point on front of tees then wear could be controlled.  hopefull the new improved gps systems will aid in such...

[Patrick_Mucci]

J.C.,

Superintendents were removing morning dew from greens with long bamboo poles in the 30's and 40's.

In fact, at the 1940 U.S. Amateur at Winged Foot, New York State troopers, in order to keep the gallery at a reasonable distance from Bing Crosby, a contestant, used those bamboo poles, with one trooper holding one end and another trooper holding the other end.   Bing Crosby was a "Rock Star" at the time and his fans were swarming around him until a number of troopers used those poles to "rope" him off from the fans.   That may have been the Genesis for gallery ropes.

The term "dew sweeper" was also used to refer to golfers who teed off early.

Sometimes, local noise ordinances prohibit those blowers from being operated in the early morning.

Enter long bamboo poles, stage left.



blow the dew off the course in the morning as opposed to waiting for the sun to take care of that an hour later

[Peter Pallotta]

Pat - the reason that story is so cool is that I think you may have gotten it straight from the source. I seem to remember an old photograph of your father and Bing Crosby. Was it taken at the US Am?

Peter
PS- I noticed on another thread that you made fun of my thread titles. Your prerogative of course, but isn't that a case of the pot calling the kettle black?
 

[Patrick_Mucci]

Pat - the reason that story is so cool is that I think you may have gotten it straight from the source. I seem to remember an old photograph of your father and Bing Crosby. Was it taken at the US Am?


Peter, yes, they were paired together, along with Billy Bob Coffey in the 1940 U.S. Am at Winged Foot.

As a result, Bing Crosby had my dad screen tested and signed to a contract, but the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor and Uncle Sam signed him to another contract.

[Bruce Katona]

 
The Greens Section does do very good work on turfgrass issues but;
 
business advise from the blue blazers who defend par and grow the game. Funny.

[Philip Caccamise]

How affordable, compared to today, was golf in 1907 ?
 
1927 ?
 
1937 ?
 
1947 ?
 
1957 ?
 
1967 ?
 
Is there that much of a difference, relatively speaking, versus today ?

Great point Pat, and I'd have to think it's at least as affordable now as it was "back then". I am very interested to hear if anybody can source some data to support this.



For illustrative purposes:
a $100 greens fee in 2015 per the CPI inflation index:
- $14 in 1967
- $12 in 1957
- $9.50 in 1947
- $6.00 in 1937
- $7.50 in 1927
- $5.30 in 1917

[Patrick_Mucci]

The more I think about it the more I'm convinced that it wasn't the golf course that made golf so expensive, it was what the golf course was attached to and associated with that's driven up the cost.
 
As for newer courses, the acquisition of the land tends to be the culprit.
 
Sebonack might be exhibit "A"

[Thomas Dai]

The more I think about it the more I'm convinced that it wasn't the golf course that made golf so expensive, it was what the golf course was attached to and associated with that's driven up the cost.
As for newer courses, the acquisition of the land tends to be the culprit.

Very nicely summerised if I may say so.


atb

[Niall C]

J.C.,

Superintendents were removing morning dew from greens with long bamboo poles in the 30's and 40's.

In fact, at the 1940 U.S. Amateur at Winged Foot, New York State troopers, in order to keep the gallery at a reasonable distance from Bing Crosby, a contestant, used those bamboo poles, with one trooper holding one end and another trooper holding the other end.   Bing Crosby was a "Rock Star" at the time and his fans were swarming around him until a number of troopers used those poles to "rope" him off from the fans.   That may have been the Genesis for gallery ropes.

The term "dew sweeper" was also used to refer to golfers who teed off early.

Sometimes, local noise ordinances prohibit those blowers from being operated in the early morning.

Enter long bamboo poles, stage left.



blow the dew off the course in the morning as opposed to waiting for the sun to take care of that an hour later

Patrick


The genesis for gallery ropes was likely the 1925 Open at Prestwick where MacDonald Smith supposedly lost because of the unruly crowds.


Niall

[Mike_Young]

The more I think about it the more I'm convinced that it wasn't the golf course that made golf so expensive, it was what the golf course was attached to and associated with that's driven up the cost.
 
As for newer courses, the acquisition of the land tends to be the culprit.
 
Sebonack might be exhibit "A"

In the USA, clubhouses played a big role...often the land was a capital cost absorbed in lots etc but the expense of the clubhouse at a wiener measuring club can kill you....

[Patrick_Mucci]

Niall,
 
I don't believe that "gallery ropes" were used in the U.S. between 1926 and 1940
 
Mike,
 
It's not just the construction of a large clubhouse, it's the operational costs associated with that plant that drive up the costs.

[Lynn_Shackelford]

I've always wondered if human nature wasn't to blame for this....

Think of how we've been taught and conditioned to drive a vehicle normally.  When you are moving, one feels free to move along and use the road as you see fit.  But if you have to stop or pullover, the courteous thing to do is get off on the side of the road, so traffic behind can pass thru safely.

Now I know its not a road, and its a different situation being on the course, but I'm guessing this happens subconsciously, especially when our mind also subconsciously recognizes how most cart paths are only little more than 1 cart wide.

hence the curbs are needed near tee boxes and greens to prevent this programming from taking over...

Just a thought...

Many years ago I heard a great idea at a course owner's convention.  Instead of a curb, paint a yellow line on each side of the cart path where you desire the cart to stay on the path(e.g. near a green or tee).  There is something in the driver's mind which discourages him/her from crossing the line.  Cheaper and better than curbs.


As for cart paths, let face it, they are more about revenue producing in wet conditions than saving turf.

[Mike_Young]

Niall,
 
I don't believe that "gallery ropes" were used in the U.S. between 1926 and 1940
 
Mike,
 
It's not just the construction of a large clubhouse, it's the operational costs associated with that plant that drive up the costs.

Exactly....that's what I meant to say when I said expense....