Heavy rough / slow play

[Ed Tilley]

From an article on the BBC website today about slow play - couldn't agree more. Unusual to see something like this written on such a mass market site.

"The way courses are presented has a role to play. There is a macho belief among players at all levels that deep rough and penal setups make for great golf when nothing is further from the truth.

Aside from breeding a one dimensional "hack and hope" form of the game it makes for a miserable time spent searching for balls rather than enjoying the game.

Quoted in the Scotsman newspaper, Stuart McColm, the course manager at the Castle Stuart course near Inverness, said: "We shouldn't be pounding on people hitting bad shots.

"A good course architect thinks how to keep you in the game rather than walking with a golf ball in your pocket.""

Full article is here:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/golf/34964087

Interesting bit about Jordan Spieth being put on the clock in the Open at St.Andrews, then going birdie, birdie, birdie and thanking the official for giving him the kick he needed!

[Michael Graham]

Ed,


Thanks for the link. It's going to be interesting over the next few months to see what strategies/policies Keith Pelley adopts for combating slow play on the European Tour. He had some strong views on the matter when interviewed in Dubai at the DP World Tour Championship a couple of weeks ago.


Michael

[Jon Wiggett]

Good Article but such pieces tend to pop up every few years. They should really be looking at getting the last group around in under 4 hours yet it is often not unusual for the first group to miss this mark. If they kept to the 45 seconds from when the player can hit for the first player and then 30 seconds for any following player if they are also waiting. No putting on the clock and warning just 1 shot penalty each time for missing the time.

At club level it seems to me that many players are unwilling to say anything about slow play or to ask to play through/let the group behind through especially in the summer. Much less of a problem in the winter though.

Jon

[Jon Wiggett]

Missed the point of heavy rough. Yes this can be a big problem for slow play with all the searching for golf balls. It is not always easy for courses however in summers such as we have had in the north of Scotland this year to keep the rough down. Cool and wet for most of the summer and the rough went manic where as the greens were slow (except the moss) which made things awkward. Still I think if you can provide a playing corridor of 50-70 yards wide it should be enough for most.

[Sean_A]

My club just announced 10 minute intervals for tee times (up from on Saturday.  Maybe I am missing it, but will this really speed up play or just reduce the number of players so being quicker isn't as important?  If it is true that pace of play wasn't a problem X number of years ago at 8 minute intervals, are we just putting a plaster on a pimple? Is this sensible place to start or just an easy out?  It seems to me that in the summer rough is the biggest killer for time, but I have no evidence for this opinion.  These days, when the course is busy, the problem is so bad that it makes less and less sense to allow groups through because the chances are you will be waiting on them in the future after all the sheenanigans of a play through.


Ciao

[jeffwarne]

the extra two minutes will help a lot.
it will at least identify the slow groups, and create the room you need for the play thoughs that make no sense on a packed course.
My guess is you'll get the same # of people around but it will seem faster with less early log jams

[Phil Young]

I guess it has nothing to do with space age golf equipment, balls that fly further than a 747 and courses stretched by more than 1,000 yards and more to deal with these "advancements"...

No, playing a 7,000 yard course in under 4 hours with today's equipment is the same as playing a 6,400 yard course in the 1950s with that equipment...

This almost sounds like a Nike commercial... "It must be the rough..." 

[Michael Graham]

A short video of how North Berwick Golf Club is attempting to combat slow play. As part of their strategy they have also increased the intervals between tee times.


Apologies for the adverts before the clip plays. http://www.skysports.com/golf/news/12176/10077107/european-tour-get-tough-on-slow-play

[Tommy Williamsen]

I have always liked a course that puts a premium on driving the ball straight.  Sometimes that may mean driving it to a particulr part of the fairway and sometimes it may mean hitting in a narrower fairway.  That said, I do not think the rough needs to be so high that it is difficult to find or so thick that you can only wedge out.

[jeffwarne]

I guess it has nothing to do with space age golf equipment, balls that fly further than a 747 and courses stretched by more than 1,000 yards and more to deal with these "advancements"...

No, playing a 7,000 yard course in under 4 hours with today's equipment is the same as playing a 6,400 yard course in the 1950s with that equipment...

This almost sounds like a Nike commercial... "It must be the rough..."

Phil,
You are of course right.
Then throw in the attempts to mitigate perceived equipment advances and suddenly you have courses talking about "protecting par: by narrowing fairways and growing rough.
Which contributes to what you said

[John Kavanaugh]

"The way courses are presented has a role to play. There is a macho belief among players at all levels that deep rough and penal setups make for great golf when nothing is further from the truth."

What about the macho belief among players who think they have the right to hit driver and swing as hard as possible.  Let's not penalize the old guy who hits it and finds it in the fairway every hole.  If you don't like the rough, don't swing so hard.  That's macho belief.

This is just another millennial bitchfest by a generation who wants everything their own way.

The game hasn't slowed down the world has sped up.

[Thomas Dai]

What about the macho belief among players who think they have the right to hit driver and swing as hard as possible.  Let's not penalize the old guy who hits it and finds it in the fairway every hole.  If you don't like the rough, don't swing so hard.  That's macho belief.

There's a lot to be said for this.
Atb

[Adrian_Stiff]

Allow technology for finding golf balls.


Mark the ball only once on the green. (unless it affects anothers direct line)


No penalty for hitting another ball on the green.


Equals 30 minutes saved on a round of golf.

[Sean_A]

Adrian


Guys willing to spend untold amounts on equipment/lessons etc already have a big advantage...too big if you ask me.  I am dubious about allowing more technology to gain an advantage. 


Ciao

[Paul Dolton]

The thick rough certainly slowed play at my club , Frilford Heath , a few years ago but this has been cut back. Certainly helped with speed of play but they have since added new tees making the courses longer for club competitions.  One of our club comps saw 5 hour rounds and people walking in. And this was a members only event !
We recently played our Christmas Turkey trot ( in November ) . A fourball handicap " fun" event , played in very wet conditions. The tees we used were on the back of medal tees .
Just out of interest was the speed of play any quicker at Merion for the US Open where the course was shorter than other recent majors ?

[Adrian_Stiff]

Slow play is the biggest single killer of the game. Golf has become very boring to watch and unfashionable. People have less time now.


Whilst it may take longer to find your ball in longer grass, it costs more to cut more grass, so the cost of golf will go up.


What is really needed is a detailed time keep of just how long each part takes. I did one a couple of years back and the time spent on the green was absolutely frightening.

[George Pazin]

Sean, it would be great if you or your club could track the differences in playing time with the spread out groups.


My naive opinion is that slow golfers are slow golfers everywhere - in the rough, around the greens, even in the middle of the fairway. It doesn't much matter what the rough is like, what the hazards are like, or what the spread in tee times is like.

[Thomas Dai]

I played 18-holes with hickories from the red ladies tees ladies last year. Great fun........and whizzed around nice and quick in comparison to playing from the yellows/whites (decent score and no lost balls either). Less mileage on the legs too.

Clubs and balls that don't go so far, shorter courses, and where appropriate, grass cut by sheep and cattle and goats etc. Sounds like history. Oh for a golfing time machine.

Somewhat ironic that we spend loads of money on new clubs and balls etc that go further and then spend even more money lengthening golf courses! Strange world sometimes.


Atb

[jeffwarne]

Somewhat ironic that we spend loads of money on new clubs and balls etc that go further and then spend even more money lengthening golf courses! Strange world sometimes.


Atb

And even more money on studies to figure out why play is slower...

[Bradley Anderson]

My golf course was designed with a lot of difficulty for the average player to handle. To make the golf course easier and more enjoyable I have expanded the 1" intermediate cut. To the 20 acres of fairways I have added about 8 acres of intermediate cut. Every place where the rough would grow exceptionally fast is now cut three times a week at 1 inch.

Our golf rounds have increased by 1,000 or so every year for five years in a row now and we are in a very saturated (over built) golf market. I think it is mostly because of the 1" intermediate cut that the higher handicap players are able to hit from. Even around the green banks we have extended the 1 inch cut and my fertility programs are giving us tighter lies in these areas. So the average player has a much easier shot than trying to hit from 3 inches of laid over blue grass.

Where every area of the golf course has improved from modern mowing and irrigation technology, the rough has become much harder. Back in the day we pulled tractor drawn gang mowers over the rough; they were generally set up around an inch and three quarters because they wouldn't give you as good of a cut above that height; the operator would generally mow with the grain of the hole because the gang mowers wouldn't cut as well against the grain, so the grass in the rough was generally laid over; it was much easier to sweep the ball out of the rough. With the development of large rotary mowers, the rough can be groomed to stand up at cutting heights above 2 inches; now the ball presentation is much deeper in the grass than it was before and the fact is golf is a much harder game than it used to be, mainly for this reason.

The solution is the expansion of the intermediate cut. With an expanded intermediate cut you should see lower scores and faster rounds from the higher handicap players, without compromising the integrity of the course.

[jeffwarne]

Bradley,
Thanks for that .Very interesting.
ironically, especially at high end clubs, the game is also much harder because the fairways are cut so short and tight
The average player assumes they made a worse swing than usual, but there are times when they never had a shot.
Another reason for the intermediate cut you describe is it is a place for a ball to finish as the ball won't stay in many fairways with slope that once worked well.

[Bradley Anderson]

The low handicap player likes the tight cut because they can control the ball better if there is no grass in the grooves. But the average player doesn't have the perfect swing arc that is required to hit off that tight surface consistently.

Golf has benefitted from most innovations but not from all. 

[Thomas Dai]

The solution is the expansion of the intermediate cut. With an expanded intermediate cut you should see lower scores and faster rounds from the higher handicap players, without compromising the integrity of the course.

A very interesting post and especially the last sentence.


A course that both Sean and I have profiled, Stinchcombe Hill near Gloucester, UK, has annual nesting bird protection regulations imposed by the statutory authoritites.


Basically they can't cut the rough at all until about August time each year so by then the rough is mega-long, Muirfield style if not higher.


The fairways are pretty conventional in width terms but what they do that I reckon is smart is that the first cut of rough is mowed very slightly longer than is usual but is crucially pretty wide at about 3-5 mowers widths on both sides of the fairways. What this slightly extra height cut and wider area seems to do is provide sufficient space for shots that are not too far off-line to land and roll a touch but not reach the thick rough.


This means that Joe Hacker can find his ball in the first cut and play his next shot easily enough but more accomplished players although finding their balls okay will then have trouble controlling the flight and spin on their next shot, even if using a spinny face wedge and playing a spinny ball.


Seems like a nice all round compromise?


Atb

[Scott Little]

My two cents on slow play.  When I played golf in high school (mid 1990s), our coach made it clear that we were to finish our rounds in 3:30 or less during tryouts (threesomes).  Every five minutes over resulted in a single stroke being added to our score.  This standard stayed put for practice rounds and was the basis for who would be allowed to play in tournaments.  I learned quickly to walk with a purpose, watch my ball throughout its flight, and terrain associate if it went into the rough/trees/bush.  Hacking a ball out of deep rough does not slow down the game.  Dudes slowly strolling up to their ball and then taking two minutes to think about how to hack it out of the rough slows down the game.  Don't get me started on reading putts. 
However, there is a easy cure to slow golf.  When I was stationed in Virginia, I played a great little muni in Petersburg called Dogwood Trace.  I would arrive before the sun rose, sit on the steps, wait for the pro to arrive who would tell me to go ahead, pay my fee at the turn, and be finished in 2:00 hrs (+/- 10 minutes).

[Sam Krume]

I think the problem with the long rough debate here in the UK is compounded by basic golfing etiquette. I can probably count on one hand how many times in the last year I/we have been called through by a group who are all trampling in the long cabbage, looking for maybe 1 or 2 players balls....I've found people quite reluctant to call the following group through, it's as if it's a stain on their golfing prowess...