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Patrick_Mucci

What's the purpose of a bunker ?
« on: November 27, 2015, 05:49:21 PM »
and how do configuration and maintainance function to fulfill that purpose ?



Andrew Simpson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What's the purpose of a bunker ?
« Reply #1 on: November 27, 2015, 06:34:19 PM »
Is it a hole to retain sand? The GK staff should keep the sand to the desired level and raked to make the ball plug in it?

Patrick_Mucci

Re: What's the purpose of a bunker ?
« Reply #2 on: November 28, 2015, 12:45:53 AM »
Intimidation ?
 
Temptation ?
 
Punish failure to properly strategize ?
 
Punish failure to properly execute ?

Bill_McBride

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Re: What's the purpose of a bunker ?
« Reply #3 on: November 28, 2015, 04:26:06 PM »
Intimidation ?
 
Temptation ?
 
Punish failure to properly strategize ?
 
Punish failure to properly execute ?


All of those plus...


Saving bunkers, say to keep a ball out of the water


Aiming bunkers off in the distance


Bunkers on a diagonal that force you to be self knowing so you don't bite off more than you can chew


Eye candy bunkers like Mackenzie at the Valley Club


Plus more I'm sure...

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What's the purpose of a bunker ?
« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2015, 05:15:53 PM »
To look good in publicity and advertising photographs and video's and on TV against a background of green, lush, striped grass, flowerbeds and manicured edged ponds and streams as well as avenues of tall trees (sic).
Atb
« Last Edit: November 28, 2015, 05:26:19 PM by Thomas Dai »

Ian Mackenzie

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Re: What's the purpose of a bunker ?
« Reply #5 on: November 28, 2015, 05:51:41 PM »
Good coverage of this topic by Jim Urbina in August's Links Magazine:


http://www.linksmagazine.com/best_of_golf/5-myths-about-bunkers


5 Myths About BunkersArchitect Jim Urbina says we no longer understand their true purpose
Appeared in August 2015 HOTLINKS
Architect Jim Urbina says we no longer understand their true purpose
1) Bunkers are there to penalize golfers
Nothing could be further from the truth. The great old-time architects said a hazard isn’t just for punishment but to make the game more interesting. Golfers take bunkers personally: Those of us in the design business see them in the exact opposite way. Robert Hunter wrote, “Without hazards, golf would be a dull sport.”
2) You should be able to advance the ball from a bunker
Why? Sometimes golf, like life, isn’t fair. The original bunkers were totally natural, which meant sometimes it was impossible to move the ball forward from them. We’ve since made our own rules and now demand the ability to hit out of a bunker all the way to the green. But that wasn’t always the original purpose.
3) Maintaining them is important
We spend too much time and money maintaining bunkers. Due to expensive sands and labor costs, what should be among the cheapest parts of a course to maintain are the most expensive. They’re hazards, not gardens, and don’t need to be beautiful let alone neat and tidy.
4) They should not be in the middle of a fairway
If you hit a great shot down the middle and it finds a bunker then it wasn’t a great shot. A hazard is often placed for strategy, and one in the fairway is telling you that’s not the best place for hitting to the green. The game requires thought and skill, and sometimes the right play isn’t the obvious one. Same with bunker placement.
5) What you see is what you get
C.B. Macdonald said it can take years to discover and appreciate the hidden qualities of a bunker. Take the time to study the bunker—where it is, how it’s shaped and looks—over and over again. A good bunker makes you think and, as all the greats said, makes a course more interesting.</blockquote>



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Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What's the purpose of a bunker ?
« Reply #6 on: November 28, 2015, 08:23:23 PM »
What's the purpose of a bunker?


Seeing how they originally resulted from a blow-out or animals, I'd suggest that the purpose was to integrate natural hazards into design.


Eventually, we had 99.9% of courses without blow-outs or animal-created bunkers, so designers built them to mimic the original Scottish links.   


In later years, we have what Redanman calls "bunker fetish", where they became eye candy.   Whether it's eye candy, landscape architecture, or a "bunker fetish", we have today an attempt to bring a touch of links golf everywhere.

William_G

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What's the purpose of a bunker ?
« Reply #7 on: November 29, 2015, 11:01:30 AM »
What's the purpose of a bunker?


Seeing how they originally resulted from a blow-out or animals, I'd suggest that the purpose was to integrate natural hazards into design.



+1
It's all about the golf!

Patrick_Mucci

Re: What's the purpose of a bunker ?
« Reply #8 on: November 29, 2015, 06:31:49 PM »
Dan,
 
I think we've all heard the term "eye candy" when refering to bunkers, but rarely does anyone post a photo of a bunker that's deemed to be "eye candy".
 
Are there any "Golden Age" courses with "eye candy" bunkers ?
 
Are any of MacKenzie's bunkers at CPC and Pasatiempo "eye candy" ?

Ian Andrew

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What's the purpose of a bunker ?
« Reply #9 on: November 29, 2015, 07:32:39 PM »
Pat,


I answered your question on the other thread ... be forewarned, its very long.


http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,62209.msg1478422.html#msg1478422

With every golf development bubble, the end was unexpected and brutal....

Patrick_Mucci

Re: What's the purpose of a bunker ?
« Reply #10 on: November 30, 2015, 05:10:00 PM »
Ian,
 
Thanks for taking the time to seriously address the issue.
 
I will respond at greater length, shortly.

Bill Vogeney

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What's the purpose of a bunker ?
« Reply #11 on: November 30, 2015, 07:03:57 PM »
I've been a national member at Prairie Dunes for six years now, and it's interesting to talk to the long time members and discuss bunkers that were not part of the original design. They were for the most part, due to former superintendent Doug Petersan and have been referred to as "sympathetic bunkers" designed to keep balls out of the "gunsch." Ones I can think of are the left bunker on 16 off the tee (I can't reach it) and the two bunkers on the left side of the 7th fairway.

I like that concept-a bunker as sympathy.

Patrick_Mucci

Re: What's the purpose of a bunker ?
« Reply #12 on: November 30, 2015, 09:48:06 PM »
Bill,
 
"Safety Net" bunkers have their place as long as what the golfer is being rescued from merits rescuing.
 
The left, greenside bunker at  # 13 at PV is a good example of a prudent "safety net" bunker.

Ryan Coles

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What's the purpose of a bunker ?
« Reply #13 on: December 02, 2015, 07:09:39 AM »
One of the Bill's - I think it was either McBride or Brightly posted a great letter to one of his fellow members re: Bunkers. I've tried in vain finding it via the search - but would very much like to read it again, if anyone has it?

Patrick_Mucci

Re: What's the purpose of a bunker ?
« Reply #14 on: December 03, 2015, 12:01:25 AM »
Ryan,
 
I think it was Bill Brightly.
 
IM or email him, I'm sure he'd be delighted to post it.

Mark_Fine

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What's the purpose of a bunker ?
« Reply #15 on: December 03, 2015, 01:42:46 PM »
Forrest and I spent almost three years compiling the answer to this question  :).  Jim's short summary is spot on.  Didn't read Ian's yet but suspect that it is good as well.

mike_malone

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What's the purpose of a bunker ?
« Reply #16 on: December 05, 2015, 12:48:02 AM »
Too often they just limit choices and force play to certain areas.

They are best as creating options that nature doesn't do as well. I find that many Flynn bunkers are to be taken on not avoided.


I have come to love the left fairway bunker on number 13 at Philly Country.  Its shape and positioning is beautiful and inviting to attack.

« Last Edit: December 05, 2015, 12:57:50 AM by mike_malone »
AKA Mayday

Patrick_Mucci

Re: What's the purpose of a bunker ?
« Reply #17 on: December 06, 2015, 10:45:16 PM »
Mark Fine,
 
I recommend your book to everyone.
 
One of the great transformations in the play of a golf hole was when C&C inserted a centerline bunker in the 3rd fairway at Hidden Creek.
 
Before the introduction of the bunker, your second shot, while not influenced by the mini quarry on the right, was a fairly benign fairway wood.
 
Once that centerline bunker was introduced, it changed everything.
 
It's a small bunker, about 115 from the center of the green and about 175-190 from the DZ.
 
It's presence dramatically influences the golfers choice of shots and his peace of mind. ;D

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