Rustic Canyon (What am I missing?)

[Frank Sekulic]

I played Rustic last Thursday and was quite honestly a little underwhelmed given all the love some here have for the course.


I liked the course and was very impressed with the greens but, off the tee it is very wide open with no trouble to get into as long as you can drive it somewhat straight and the bunkers never really come into play around the greens.


I would play it again if I was in the area but, I am confused as to why so many here lover the place.


What am I missing?

[Kyle Harris]

I played Rustic last Thursday and was quite honestly a little underwhelmed given all the love some here have for the course.


I liked the course and was very impressed with the greens but, off the tee it is very wide open with no trouble to get into as long as you can drive it somewhat straight and the bunkers never really come into play around the greens.


I would play it again if I was in the area but, I am confused as to why so many here lover the place.


What am I missing?

You liked the course, you were very impressed with the greens and you'd play it again?

What am I missing?

[Rob Marshall]

Said the same thing about the Ocean course. Don't get it. Everyone's eye is different. Doak gave the Cashen  at Ballybunion a 5. I thought it was awful and a complete was of 4 hours to play it.

[John Kavanaugh]

It blows Lawsonia out of the water but is just another in a long line of regional wet dreams.

[Ronald Montesano]

How windy was it? I played it three weeks ago in high winds and was absolutely enchanted by the shots I had to conjure. I smashed low 4-irons from 150 yards (normally a 195 yard shot for me) that drilled low for 130 yards, then rose up and stopped, dropped and rolled (just a bit) to a rest on the putting surface.


I then turned around and bombed drivers toward distant greens.


Let's see, just because you have a wedge in your hand, doesn't mean you're getting up and down in 3!!


Just because you're on the green, doesn't mean you'll 2 or 3 putt!!


What looks like green from the fairway, may not be green when you get there, but you'll still be putting.


You can putt or hybrid-bump from 75 yards out. You can also fly a wedge in from the same spot.


Which tees did you play? Some of the holes are very different (I think #15 is one of them) from the various tees.


The par three holes are all very different.


You can nearly always play ground or air game.

[Tim Leahy]

Maybe you have played alot of Scottish type courses but here in Cali I have played over 500 courses there is not another course like it. Much like Pinehurst this course requires shots that we dont normally have to make like putts from off the greens and
a ground game. Burns and hidden pot bunkers along with cross bunkers and 50 yard greens are not very common here. We have plenty of canyon courses with barrancas and changes in elevation but none like Rustic Canyon. If you missed all the hazards and had no problems getting close to the pins then you are one hell of a player. The course never gets old to me and I go out of my way to play it.

[Frank Sekulic]

How windy was it? I played it three weeks ago in high winds and was absolutely enchanted by the shots I had to conjure. I smashed low 4-irons from 150 yards (normally a 195 yard shot for me) that drilled low for 130 yards, then rose up and stopped, dropped and rolled (just a bit) to a rest on the putting surface.


I then turned around and bombed drivers toward distant greens.


Let's see, just because you have a wedge in your hand, doesn't mean you're getting up and down in 3!!


Just because you're on the green, doesn't mean you'll 2 or 3 putt!!


What looks like green from the fairway, may not be green when you get there, but you'll still be putting.


You can putt or hybrid-bump from 75 yards out. You can also fly a wedge in from the same spot.


Which tees did you play? Some of the holes are very different (I think #15 is one of them) from the various tees.


The par three holes are all very different.


You can nearly always play ground or air game.

It was not very windy the day I played and I can see how it would be a tough place to play in the wind but, outside of the greens (which are definitely tough) I just could not see why there are so many here who are so enamored with the course.


It is a nice course but, out of the courses I have played this year for the first time (Fallen Oak, Mountain Ridge and Indian Creek) it is a distant fourth.

[Josh Tarble]

What did you shoot? How far off was it from your normal handicap?

I say this not having played Rustic but a couple courses with similarities - the green complexes are the main defense and the subtlety makes it hard to see things the first time around.  I've found with a lot of these types of courses, it is easy to bomb it around, miss greens, chip on and two putt.  They're very easy to shoot a decent score and very difficult to shoot an awful score or a good score.

I think it's easy to dismiss courses like Rustic as non-descript on one play.  The challenge lies in trying to shoot a really good score.  Anyone can go out and shoot a decent score.

[John Cowden]

Fallen Oak?  Really?  I don't know you, Frank, but that over-rated, over-priced Fazio track is an uninspiring cart race to me.  Given five rounds, 4-1 Rustic for me.  Maybe I don't get it, but I'd rather not get it on Rustic than FO. 

[John Kavanaugh]

Frank,


Rustic Canyon is historically significant to this site, the careers of Gill Hanse and Geoff Shackeldord, and the urban minimalist movement. It has earned its pass. Important courses do not exist in a vacuum.

[Tim_Weiman]

I played Rustic last Thursday and was quite honestly a little underwhelmed given all the love some here have for the course.


I liked the course and was very impressed with the greens but, off the tee it is very wide open with no trouble to get into as long as you can drive it somewhat straight and the bunkers never really come into play around the greens.


I would play it again if I was in the area but, I am confused as to why so many here lover the place.


What am I missing?

Frank,


I have only played Rustic Canyon one time with none other than Tommy N himself - quite a treat in its own right, of course.


But that said, I am not sure I understand your apparent complaint about the course. Having watched golfers for more than fifty years, I've notice that it is a pretty small minority that can hit straight drives.


So, I guess I don't understand why being very open off the tee would be a design flaw.

[Ronald Montesano]

And remember that, like The Old Course, width is unimportant if the side of the fairway you're on presents the proper or improper angle from which to approach the green.

[Alex Miller]

I like Rustic because it's in the area, affordable, and a damn great golf course. Also it suits my game (with great club head speed comes great dispersion).




Frank, let me know next time you're around and I'll do my best Tommy impression to highlight some features at Rustic. One of the best things about the place is that it plays differently and shows itself to you over multiple plays because there are features that serve distinct purposes. All is not revealed from the center of the fairway and to one set of pins. It's incredibly elastic and after many rounds there it's still a delight.


Also regarding the lack of penal bunkers (of which I think there are still enough), the ones that are there do a great job dictating strategy. And most who have played Rustic can agree that just because you're on short grass does not mean you are making par.

[Frank Sekulic]

I played Rustic last Thursday and was quite honestly a little underwhelmed given all the love some here have for the course.


I liked the course and was very impressed with the greens but, off the tee it is very wide open with no trouble to get into as long as you can drive it somewhat straight and the bunkers never really come into play around the greens.


I would play it again if I was in the area but, I am confused as to why so many here lover the place.


What am I missing?

Frank,


I have only played Rustic Canyon one time with none other than Tommy N himself - quite a treat in its own right, of course.


But that said, I am not sure I understand your apparent complaint about the course. Having watched golfers for more than fifty years, I've notice that it is a pretty small minority that can hit straight drives.


So, I guess I don't understand why being very open off the tee would be a design flaw.
 

Maybe, I just need to play it again and see what I think after a second go round.

[cary lichtenstein]

I played Rustic last Thursday and was quite honestly a little underwhelmed given all the love some here have for the course.


I liked the course and was very impressed with the greens but, off the tee it is very wide open with no trouble to get into as long as you can drive it somewhat straight and the bunkers never really come into play around the greens.


I would play it again if I was in the area but, I am confused as to why so many here lover the place.


Frank.
 you are missing nothing. it's a favorite on this site for reasons unknown, but it is nothing special


What am I missing?

[Alex Miller]

It's fine to have differing opinions- it's what makes the world go 'round.




But it's a lot easier to miss something that's there than to see something that's not. Give it another go and keep an open mind! I actually didn't know that Jaka doesn't think much of Rustic, but that helps affirm my positive view of the place.     

[DMoriarty]

I actually didn't know that Jaka doesn't think much of Rustic, but that helps affirm my positive view of the place.     

Kavanaugh's been trolling Rustic since years before he ever bothered to play there. Whether or not he likes it depends more on the troll-du-jour than the course itself.

[John Kavanaugh]

I thought I was being complimentary of Rustic and I didn't even play the Tommy card.

[Chris Mavros]

I enjoyed RC a lot and while it's been a few years, recall using my 3W off the tee a lot because my driver kept getting me in trouble.  But I remember tee shots at the 16th, 2nd, 11th, 13th,  and 14th requiring fairly good placement.  The course had complexity to it and invited several different ways to play each hole.  It also very much felt like the course was placed onto the terrain as opposed to built into it.  Combined with the surrounding natural landscape and scenery, RC made a very good impression on me. 

[Pete Lavallee]

I liked the course and was very impressed with the greens but, off the tee it is very wide open with no trouble to get into as long as you can drive it somewhat straight and the bunkers never really come into play around the greens.


What am I missing?

Frank,

Please tell us what the new course record is! 

Some people just can't get their head around the fact that driving is not the major task but an end to a means. Yes you can possibly get on the green from the wrong angle at Rustic but it is unlikely you will score well from there. In order to answer your question we need to know how well you played, did you shoot to your handicap, very few do this at Rustic the first time out. If you did you must be an extremely observant golfer because there is a lot to take in there. We're you able to judge the up down canyon effect on the greens?  Did you play your tee shot close to the boundary fence on #2 to get a good angle in or were you able to hold the green there after just blasting it out to the right center? Where you able to just drive it on #3 or as there some thought involved in whether to  play left or right of the green? Have you played TOC and do you see any similarities?

[MCirba]

Frank,

When it's not so obvious, finding it is all the more satisfying.

Asking the question is just the start of that journey. 

[Jason Thurman]

Frank, I don't think you're missing anything. Rustic Canyon is a very good course, but its reputation precedes it.


My impression after playing was much like yours. I enjoyed it and would have had no qualms about returning, but I couldn't help feeling slightly disappointed after hearing all the hype.


A funny thing has happened in the years since. When friends travel to the LA area I find myself recommending it to them heartily, and when I recently listed the 25 courses I'd be most excited to play again I found myself bumping it ahead of a few courses that I love and into the final spot. Rustic Canyon didn't live up to the GCA hype for me, and that's not really surprising. It's a very good course in a major metro area at a ridiculously affordable price point, so it's not surprising that lots of guys who post on here would have a love affair with the place that might border on excessive. I've seen posts comparing it to Pinehurst #2 and calling it the most impressive course of the last 15 years, and it just can't live up to that kind of fawning. Nevertheless, while it might not be quite as good as some of the hyperbole would suggest, it's still an outstanding golf course. I won't speak for you, but if not for the unrealistic expectations that I suspect I carried into my round at Rustic I think I'd have been more willing to sing its praises afterwards.

[mike_malone]

You suggest there is little in the way of hazards off the tee. If you prefer penal courses then you should be underwhelmed.
I found the course to be sublime.

[Bill_McBride]

You suggest there is little in the way of hazards off the tee. If you prefer penal courses then you should be underwhelmed.
I found the course to be sublime.

+1

[Jason Thurman]

There are plenty of strategic courses with hazards in play from the tee.


This thread is pathetic. A guy criticizes a sacred cow and the most substantive response is "Being on short grass doesn't mean you'll make par!" You all get a gold star for your ability to recite GCA cliches. Now let's talk architecture:


Can anyone actually rebut Frank's criticism of the course with specific examples of how Rustic Canyon is more interesting from the tee than he thinks? Or does he have a point that Rustic Canyon, for all its strengths, isn't a particularly interesting driving course? I really can't think of a compelling driving hole out there myself - I mean, 14 is pretty good but it's nothing I haven't seen on an Art Hills course.