[Julian Wise]

We are planning our trip to Scotland for June and cannot decide between playing Carnoustie/Kingsbarns or Gullane No.1/North Berwick for our first two rounds--we cannot do both as we are heading to the Highlands on day 3 to play Royal Dornoch et al for the final two days of trip.  We were all set to do Carnoustie/Kingsbarns and then I went ahead and read Doak's Confidential Guide (which thus far has never led me wrong) and now feel like we must play North Berwick.  Thoughts?   

[Rich Goodale]

Architecture wise it is a no-brainer.  Carnoustie is one of the finest designs of the "Golden Age" and Kingsbarns is one of the best designs of the past 20 years.  North Berwick has a boring front 9 and a cool and quirky back nine.  Gullane is a two trick pony with two cool holes--up the big hill on the 2nd and down the big hill on the 17th.  The remaining 16 are OK but nothing to write home about.

Location wise it is a no brainer too.  If you play Carnoustie/Kingsbarns you get to stay in St. Andrews, which is a world-class place to stay.  If you play North Berwick/Gullane you stay in a twee but pretty boring part of the world, and....

....you add at least one hour to your trip to Dornoch, and the more time you spend in Dornoch the better.

Regardless, Enjoy!

[Michael Moore]

On my trip to East Lothian this year, when going over places to play almost every local and tourist gave a gushing, must-play, rave review to Kingsbarns.

[Sean_A]

With either combo you will get plenty of good holes and plenty of eye candy...including views. 


1. How much does your group value quirk and originality?


NB is quirky and original, but Gullane not so much.


2. Does your group prefer easier or tougher courses?


The NB/Gullane combo is a fair bit easier.


3. Is staying in St Andrews on the table?  This could be the deal breaker.


4. Does your group really want to see an Open course? This could be the deal breaker. 


5. Does your group care if you are playing public/resort atmosphere compared to a more private club atmosphere? 


The Carnoustie/Kingsbarns combo is more "resort" like. 


Ciao

[Bill_McBride]

I've only looked at Kingsbarns from the clubhouse but wow, it's spectacular!

Why no stab at playing The Old Course as long as you're in the neighborhood?

[MCirba]

Julian,

I think Sean's questions are the correct ones and will lead you to the answer that will work best for your group.   

Life is full of tough decisions. 

[Jud_T]

Given that North Berwick is probably my sorriest miss, I'd probably vote for that combo.  Having said that, Carnoustie is well worth seeing and Kingsbarns is one of the better modern tracks around.  Personally, I don't need to see many modern courses when I go on that side of the pond as we have a plethora of them at home.  I'd also imagine that Kingsbarns is easily the most expensive of the 4.  Personal choice certainly. 

[Niall C]

I'd also suggest standard of golfer might be one criteria. A 28 handicapper might not appreciate Carnoustie as much as say North Berwick but then again you never know.


Niall

[Jon Wiggett]

All much of a muchness on one side but I wonder why you would opt to play KB and not one ot the St.A courses unless you have already played them. If it were me I would look at NB and Gullane tough I would play Kilspindie ahead of Gullane.


Jon

[Julian Wise]

With either combo you will get plenty of good holes and plenty of eye candy...including views. 

THANKS VERY MUCH TO REPSONSES SO FAR.  SEE RESPONSES TO A FEW QUESTIONS BELOW.

1. How much does your group value quirk and originality?  A good deal.  Quirky like Cruden Bay?


NB is quirky and original, but Gullane not so much.


2. Does your group prefer easier or tougher courses?  No particular preference--aware that Carnoustie is a tough course.


The NB/Gullane combo is a fair bit easier.


3. Is staying in St Andrews on the table?  This could be the deal breaker.  Will stay at Old Course Hotel if Kingsbarns/Carnoustie


4. Does your group really want to see an Open course? This could be the deal breaker.  Not necessary


5. Does your group care if you are playing public/resort atmosphere compared to a more private club atmosphere?  Would prefer more private but not paramount.


The Carnoustie/Kingsbarns combo is more "resort" like. 


Ciao

[Benjamin Litman]

Julian: If "Royal Dornoch et al." includes Castle Stuart, go for the North Berwick/Gullane combination while further south. Kingsbarns and Castle Stuart are both modern-day, broad-shouldered links envisioned and developed by the same person (Mark Parsinen, who worked with architect Kyle Phillips on the former and Gil Hanse on the latter), and both cost more to play than most of the other Scottish courses (hence the "resort" feel referred to by Sean). To be fair, I haven't played Kingsbarns, but Castle Stuart--even in an unrelenting 40-mph wind--was spectacular. My point is simply that playing both (assuming, again, that you even plan to play Castle Stuart) might be somewhat redundant. You'll have an amazing time no matter which combination you choose. Enjoy, and try your best to include Brora while in the Highlands.

[Tom_Doak]

Architecture wise it is a no-brainer.  Carnoustie is one of the finest designs of the "Golden Age" and Kingsbarns is one of the best designs of the past 20 years.  North Berwick has a boring front 9

Rich is the no-brainer.   


You won't go wrong either way, they are all fine courses, but North Berwick is one of my favorite PLACES in the world, and Carnoustie does not register on that metric.

[Rich Goodale]

To each his own, Tom .

[Sean_A]

With either combo you will get plenty of good holes and plenty of eye candy...including views. 

THANKS VERY MUCH TO REPSONSES SO FAR.  SEE RESPONSES TO A FEW QUESTIONS BELOW.

1. How much does your group value quirk and originality?  A good deal.  Quirky like Cruden Bay?


NB is quirky and original, but Gullane not so much.


2. Does your group prefer easier or tougher courses?  No particular preference--aware that Carnoustie is a tough course.


The NB/Gullane combo is a fair bit easier.


3. Is staying in St Andrews on the table?  This could be the deal breaker.  Will stay at Old Course Hotel if Kingsbarns/Carnoustie


4. Does your group really want to see an Open course? This could be the deal breaker.  Not necessary


5. Does your group care if you are playing public/resort atmosphere compared to a more private club atmosphere?  Would prefer more private but not paramount.


The Carnoustie/Kingsbarns combo is more "resort" like. 


Ciao

Julian

It sounds like your group is fairly indifferent.  If so, I would say North Berwick is a more memorable course than the other three combined.  Should you choose the North Berwick option, it may be worth while playing it twice.  It is far and away the most interesting and original of your choices and merits a second viewing. 

Ciao

[James Brown]

North Berwick has a ton of charm.  You will hit every club there.  Same for Gullane.  Carnoustie is pretty bread and butter optically, but tons of interesting shots, golf wise.   Kingsbarns is gorgeous and fun.  I found it similar to Kiawah in the feel, as a newish course on a great piece of oceanfront. 


I would agree the choice is about what else you wanna do along the way.  Gullane/Nb gives you a shot at Muirfield and a tone of other cool links right on the Ocean.  St. Andrews is a must do, but I think it has to be done just right.  A drive by on TOC doesn't really do that experience justice.  You need to stay in St. Andrews a few days. 

[K Rafkin]

North Berwick is one of those courses where you want to walk directly from the 18th green to the 1st tee, and if you don't you'll regret it.  Gullane 1 has one of the best views in golf..which is of Muirfield as well as several good holes.  Id go ahead and Switch G1 for either Muirfield or Renaissance and then its a no brainer. 

[Greg Taylor]

Three of your four are a notch above the fourth which is Gullane #1... dropping another of the three that's left is a much tougher choice.

[Julian Wise]

North Berwick is one of those courses where you want to walk directly from the 18th green to the 1st tee, and if you don't you'll regret it.  Gullane 1 has one of the best views in golf..which is of Muirfield as well as several good holes.  Id go ahead and Switch G1 for either Muirfield or Renaissance and then its a no brainer.

So to answer a few questions being asked, after the two courses we elect (i.e., Carnoustie/Kingsbarns or Gullane/North Berwick), we are playing Dornoch (36), Castle Stuart and Nairn.  Now you provoked a second question, Renaissance or Gullane?  We can get on Renaissance but we are unable to get on Muirfield.  Thx.

[Mark Pearce]

If cost is no object Renaissance over Gullane every time.  In fact, I'd probably play Dunbar over Gullane.  There again, I'd probably play Elie or one of the St Andrews courses over Kingsbarns, particularly if you are already doing Castle Stuart.  And I'd play Brora or Golspie over Nairn.

[Sean_A]

Given the high cost of Gullane anyway, I would suggest Renaissance over Gullane. 


Ciao

[Jason Topp]

For me, the memories of Gullane and North Berwick are magical and vivid.  I would go there.

[Niall C]

Have you ever thought of Forfar ?

[Benjamin Litman]

Julian, as I noted above, now that you've confirmed that you will be playing Castle Stuart in the Highlands, skip Kingsbarns/Carnoustie and do the East Lothian duo instead.

[Niall C]

Julian


Despite what my good friend Rich says about North Berwick as a town, it's a lovely place and I say that as someone from the west of Scotland. The course too has a lovely ambiance and is undoubtedly a fine course. It's noted for it's quirk and has some fine views if that's what floats your boat. Gullane is also a fine course although comparing the two is kind of like apples to oranges.


Mike's photos of it give a fair impression of the course. The views are as panoramic and open as any other course in Scotland. Unfortunately the external views tend to overshadow what's going on on the course which offers some really good golf and, IMHO, the best golfing turf in Scotland, even if it doesn't have quite the amount of humps and bumps that overseas visitors tend to think that links golf is all about.


If push came to shove I'd probably favour NB/G1 over the other two although that said Carnoustie would be my pick of the bunch although I appreciate the stern test of golf and austere look of it isn't for everyone.


Niall

[K Rafkin]

North Berwick is one of those courses where you want to walk directly from the 18th green to the 1st tee, and if you don't you'll regret it.  Gullane 1 has one of the best views in golf..which is of Muirfield as well as several good holes.  Id go ahead and Switch G1 for either Muirfield or Renaissance and then its a no brainer.

Julian


So to answer a few questions being asked, after the two courses we elect (i.e., Carnoustie/Kingsbarns or Gullane/North Berwick), we are playing Dornoch (36), Castle Stuart and Nairn.  Now you provoked a second question, Renaissance or Gullane?  We can get on Renaissance but we are unable to get on Muirfield.  Thx.

The truth is that there is no "right answer" to your conundrum.  I'd go Renissance over Gullane every time as well.  It's the third best course is East Lothian, but it would be the second best if it was in fife.  I generally wouldn't fault you for playing Kingbarns which I'd call a Doak 7 (not all 7s are created equally, and if I had to give it another rating I'd give it a 6 over an . It certainly is a great course and 9 out of 10 visitors like Kingbarns a whole lot more than I do, so you probably can't go wrong.  It's your time and your money, but if it was my time and my money I'd do the East Lothian trip with Renissance 10/10 times.  Find 20 extra mins in your itenary and hike up Gullane Hill.


So now let's address your second issue.  You're playing Nairn and not Brora...DONT MISS OUT ON BRORA especially when you're already going that far North.


Have fun!

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