We're living in profoundly conservative times

[Jeff Taylor]

Conservative times? Maybe.
Cynical times? Yes.

[George Pazin]

George - because of my respect and affection for you, it's important for me that you know I had absolutely no intention to talk 'politics' on this thread. (If I had, I would've at least had the courtesy to label it OT). First, because I simply don't want to talk about politics, and secondly because that's not the kind of "conservative" I wanted to explore. I'm heartened by the fact that, from what I can tell, only Frank and Cary seemed to think it was about/tried to make it about politics; and that someone like Ian understood what it was actually about. What started the thread for me was the interview with/thread about David M Kidd. That developed into a good discussion; and my point there and here was this: that it is stunning to me that the current ethos/consensus approach is so fixed, so seemingly rule-bound, and so established that DMK would criticize his own past work simply because (or so it seems to me) it doesn't "fit in" to the mold, one that we're all familiar with and that has been "pegged" to Mike K. Now, it is a lovely and viable mold, yes; but that fixed/establish kind of ideology is what I call "conservative" - not in the political sense (and not in the context of American political life), but in the etymological sense, e.g. to conserve/preserve/maintain. I thought my explicit reference to culture and then my even more explicit reference to golf and the golfing media would've made that clear. It didn't, I see. But -- and I don't think I've ever used this phrase here before, and I'm not a fan of it generally --  it seems clear that, if some insist on seeing party politics and attacks from one side against another, it "says more about them than it does about me".
Best
Peter

Ok, I understand better what you're saying. Thanks, didn't even need that drink.

I don't understand how anyone who doesn't know what the word "conserve" means can fail to see what Peter is driving at in this thread.[/size]But to put it on the up and up, "conserve" means "protect (something, especially an environmentally or culturally important place or thing) from harm or destruction.["[/size][/font][/color]

There are certain words that are incredibly difficult to separate from politics or parse the meaning. That's why I said it was both profound and profoundly ignorant (in the lack of knowledge sense of the word, certainly not the rude sense; as Peter mentioned, we are good friends, so I knew what he was getting at - but clearly others didn't).




Neither the word conservative nor the word liberal are used even remotely as they were in the not too distant past.

[BCowan]

it's about the Big House in Carlsbad and the Big House in Beaverton.  More than ever, as hard as that is to believe.

Peter,
Yes, Peter, the golf business has been a huge part of confusing the game itself. 
Google a few of the State Golf Industry reports.  I think the turf/maintenance side of golf is much much larger than the retail side. 

But still the biggest thing we have to overcome is confusing golf with RE development.  I don't even think that type of development should be counted anymore.  For instance, the new TW course is having a grand opening with just 7 holes open and the mags are hyping it?  Come on....
As much as I hate to admit it, I have come to realize that golf has to be subsidized to make it today.  It can be a private dues paying club or a muni course but a golf course owned by a private enterprise and trying to sell green fees is a difficult if not impossible task.

Mike,

   I Can't believe you of all people have succumbed to this.  Your opening RE sentence is spot on.  RE isn't Conservative, it's progressive/Mercantile.  Cable isn't conservative (Golf Channel).  If one knows the definition of a parklands course back in the day it was sometimes known as a golf course on an estate.  We have moved away from that closer to our roots.  Some on here want to focus on all ill's of Golf and use it to give a big picture and to politicize it. ''Art of the Deal''- ''It wasn't meant to be political''- lol.  TW course or any other high profile track are always going to be around past or future. 

   As for the sentence i highlighted, if that were true places like Ravisloe who's owner is a retired vet who Doesn't play Golf and broke even this year running the golf course.  What does that tell you?  Also Muskegon CC which is in a high Meth area in Michigan picked up 40 new members due to a few members owning the course now.  Golf is trying to move back to its UK roots (That is conservative).  Now the author of this thread wants to make fun of Marketing/Advertising and label that as conservative, ha.  It's called running a business.  I have a small business and I do advertising (old school) 5.5 by 8.5 postcards works really well and enables me to also get word of mouth customers post marketing ones.  What i can't understand is why ma and pa courses don't pool their resources together and advertise something different then the like of a Boyne (N. Michigan company) to attract new customers.  Another example of Conservative roots would be the pro that taught me to play the game was the HP and GM, the club lived within their means and had NO debt (refreshing).  Gave lessons around the clock and they worked hard back in the day.  Now you have GM's making $150K+ a year in a 8 month season and HP's being door greeters (progressive) that don't even give lessons. 

  As far as Mike K goes, the guy took great risk on building a resort in the middle of Nowhere Oregon and has been successful.  He also allows folks to play golf as they choose (carry, trolley, or caddie) refreshing.  What Golf needs is an over supply of Kieser tracks to allow the price to fall one day  .  Golf is in progressive times, cheap credit, no disposable income, Corportist Media, Consumerism, and lack of values.  Golf is trying to get back to it's Conservative UK (old school) style ways.  It's about the Golf, Stupid....