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John Cowden

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon Dunes thoughts
« Reply #50 on: November 18, 2015, 07:57:19 PM »
Alex, that's an interesting point.  I've never thought about it before, but I think I agree with you.  I also thought the hole was more challenging as well as interesting when the fescue mow line was much tighter to the fairway, almost to the left side of the left-most fairway bunker.  Given the diagonal aspect of the green and benefit of a good drive on the left side of the fairway for the best approach, it was more a more inspiring hole than it is today.

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon Dunes thoughts
« Reply #51 on: November 18, 2015, 08:19:35 PM »
Doesn't the epic RCD have a unsightly pond on one of its holes?  ANGC has at least one too!

Hardly seems like BD should be marked down for this.

JLahrman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon Dunes thoughts
« Reply #52 on: November 18, 2015, 10:04:28 PM »
Kalen, I wouldn't say I'm marking BD down because of it, and I kind of regret bringing it up, because the wetland is more of an aesthetic nitpick on my part. I don't think the hole would be that much better strategically without it. As mentioned, the biggest surprise for my on my second visit was that BD was a lot better than I gave it credit for after my first visit.

JLahrman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon Dunes thoughts
« Reply #53 on: November 18, 2015, 10:06:31 PM »
While strategically sound I've found #11 uninspiring in my 5-6 plays of BD.

Alex I actually liked it more with repeat plays. Every time I've played it the wind has been blowing pretty decent from left to right, and my drives would get blown way right and leave me a lousy line in. So I started hitting a low 3-iron off the tee, trying to hold it against the wind and keep it left of the fairway bunker. I really had fun hitting that tee shot. You probably just drive the green though...

Sven Nilsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon Dunes thoughts
« Reply #54 on: November 19, 2015, 11:33:33 AM »
While strategically sound I've found #11 uninspiring in my 5-6 plays of BD.


Alex:


What tees did you play and what was the wind doing each time you played?


Sven
"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Alex Miller

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon Dunes thoughts
« Reply #55 on: November 19, 2015, 12:56:29 PM »
While strategically sound I've found #11 uninspiring in my 5-6 plays of BD.


Alex:


What tees did you play and what was the wind doing each time you played?


Sven


I've played it in all winds- most recently downwind from the back (not Am) tees and made birdie from just off the green. It's not one of those holes that has overly punished me and distorted my view of it.


I'm not sure if I can put my finger on why it's one of my least favorite holes at BD. Maybe it's just not all that fun?

Sven Nilsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon Dunes thoughts
« Reply #56 on: November 19, 2015, 01:48:23 PM »
While strategically sound I've found #11 uninspiring in my 5-6 plays of BD.


Alex:


What tees did you play and what was the wind doing each time you played?


Sven


I've played it in all winds- most recently downwind from the back (not Am) tees and made birdie from just off the green. It's not one of those holes that has overly punished me and distorted my view of it.


I'm not sure if I can put my finger on why it's one of my least favorite holes at BD. Maybe it's just not all that fun?


Alex:


Trust me, you haven't played it in all winds.  No one has, not even Grant Rogers.  The hole changes every day.


From the Green tees into the prevailing summer wind its one of the hardest 350 yard holes I've seen.  Par is a great score under those conditions.


The slight northwestern angle of the hole creates havoc on the drive.  You really have to bust one to carry the first bunker on the left to create the optimal angle into the green (taking the pot bunker on the front right of the green out of play), which is a shot most people don't have.  So the play is to try to get as close to the three left side bunkers as possible.  And even though the fairway is 60 to 70 yards wide, anything with a bit of slice spin has a good chance of finding the gorse on the right.


Most second shots are from somewhere right of the bunker line, meaning you have to come in over the greenside bunker or at least flirt with it.  The wind tries to push balls left into the tall grass just off of the green, with the falloff on the right waiting for anyone that holds the shot off a little too long and gets trapped on the outside of the breeze.


The green itself creates all sorts of issues.  The front section can be devilishly quick when putting from above the hole, and just as slow when trying to chip or putt on from short.  There's a bowl on the left side in the middle that sweeps balls off the green into the collection area.  The runoff to the back of the green is hard to judge, and will carry shots over the back when given just a bit too much run out.  And god forbid you have to chip back over the mounds on the back left.


Much of this changes in the winter when playing downwind (or as noted more accurately, mostly quartering to the right).  Longer players have an advantage, but its still tough to judge the uphill nature of the approach and exactly how a shot will react on the green.


Not sure if the hole was ever meant to be fun.  I see it as just about as good a test of golf as you can get out of 350 yards, with room to stretch the hole out much further when needed.  The number on the yardage plate often leads to people letting their guard down, which is a big mistake here as focus is needed on every shot.


On a sidenote, I recently caddied for a younger player just out of college who had the game to play the back plates.  We played 18 at Pac from the 660 tees into a pretty strong South wind.  He hit Driver to 20 yards on to the fairway and then two 3-Woods to the green.  On 11 at Bandon we played the way back box and here we were downwind.  He hit a solid drive and still had 6 iron into the green.


Sven
"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Pete_Pittock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon Dunes thoughts
« Reply #57 on: November 20, 2015, 09:52:35 PM »
There is no such thing as bad weather, just inappropriate clothing