We're living in profoundly conservative times

[Peter Pallotta]

Yes, I think so.
Sure, there is the apparent sound and fury all around us, and yet it signifies nothing.
The "framework" of modern day culture -- including the golfing industry and its media - is essentially conservative, but it is so deeply embedded now and so widely embraced that is has become normative, and so very few seem even to notice it anymore. 
Money. Recognition. Power/control. Marketing. Industry Associations. Prestige. The Corporation. Synergies. Master's Programs.  The Art of the Deal. Branding. 
I don't know much about contemporary music, and less every day. But I remember when 'rap' was Public Enemy and not Kanye West -- about challenging "The Man" instead of becoming Him. 
The Golf Media: an unabashed and unashamed tool of the Establishment, and openly so -- reflecting the ultimate sign that we're living in profoundly conservative times, i.e. the wide-spread belief that there is no such thing as "selling out" anymore, since nothing could be higher or greater or more devoutly to be sought than membership in the Club.
There are no more Deep Throats now hiding in the shadows, prodding along determined journalists searching for the Truth; they are not hiding but out in the open on sunny patios, feeding their lines and messages in pre-packaged press releases that the PR men journalists merely have to reformat into a different font before posting them instantly online. And about the Truth? Ah, the culture says: don't be so naïve. 
Peter

[Frank M]

You've obviously never heard of Canada.

[Peter Pallotta]

You've obviously never heard of Canada.

No, I haven't, except for being born there in downtown Toronto and never leaving.
There's of course a different kind of conservative times in Canada (the recent, and or me welcomed, win for Prime Minister Trudeau notwithstanding); and no one notices it there either.
A line I used to hear often in different variations from different people (when I worked in a different industry): It took me six hours to set up meetings with Paramount and Disney, and 6 months to get a meeting with the CBC. 

[Bill_McBride]

Do not despair, mon ami, things go in circles over time.  The Trudeau election and the US Republican clown car - perhaps the circle/cycle is underway!

[Peter Pallotta]

Ah, there's the rub, Bill. It *appears* that the times they are a changing, but notice: there is no Bob Dylan around to celebrate it and move it along. And also, it's not about "politics" at all: the golfing industry and media aren't cracking things open no matter who is in the Big House in Washington.  Because it's not about that; it's about the Big House in Carlsbad and the Big House in Beaverton.  More than ever, as hard as that is to believe.
Peter
But thanks, friend.   

[Frank M]

You've obviously never heard of Canada.

No, I haven't, except for being born there in downtown Toronto and never leaving.
There's of course a different kind of conservative times in Canada (the recent, and or me welcomed, win for Prime Minister Trudeau notwithstanding); and no one notices it there either.
A line I used to hear often in different variations from different people (when I worked in a different industry): It took me six hours to set up meetings with Paramount and Disney, and 6 months to get a meeting with the CBC.

I feel sorry for you.

[Dan_Callahan]

The "framework" of modern day culture -- including the golfing industry and its media - is essentially conservative, but it is so deeply embedded now and so widely embraced that is has become normative, and so very few seem even to notice it anymore. 

I think there are some unemployed people at the University of Missouri who would disagree with this assessment. And looks like Yale and Ithaca aren't too far behind them ...

[Tim Gavrich]

Golf has always been very conservative by nature of its adherence to tradition and its very complicated Rules. Tradition and the Rules are of course part of golf's charm, but it's a double-edged sword. Golf has, since the outset, been associated more with the aristocracy and ruling classes than other widely-played sports, and things like the perceived expense and the demographics of the game continue to work against it.


Tiger Woods represented hope for a significant minority presence in the game, but through some of his own extracurriculars and his treatment by the golf and non-golf media since those antics became publicly known, I think a lot of people now have the sense that he was an exception that proved a rule. And never mind the fact that the "golf boom" he helped buoy could not have been less focused on providing more golf opportunities for those from backgrounds more like Tiger's and less like, say, Davis Love III's.


Change is not welcomed very warmly in golf, which is why the recent evident crisis in the game has been treated so seriously. It's all about the money, baby! Fewer people playing fewer rounds of golf means less revenue for golf courses and equipment companies. Which is certainly fair enough - businesses need to make money, especially in times where money is worshipped far more fervently than any deity. Which, again, fair enough. Money is a pretty good thing.


The best thing happening to make golf better lately is, of course, something that has gotten very little national golf press because it concerns municipal courses, and they don't really advertise and golf writers and raters don't generally get comped to play them. To the cynical eye, the large-scale revitalization of dozens of our country's publicly owned, inexpensive-to-play golf courses is an example of that nasty (to many) word "socialism," but to the objective eye it is palpably raising the average design quality of golf courses. And if there's one principle this group seems to stand for, it's that the quality of golf in general and the quality of its courses are directly correlated.

[MCirba]

Tim,

We'll stated in all regards.

A few of us are hoping to add to the resurgence of municipal golf in our neighborhood in this coming year.  We've had a long journey but the stars seem to be aligning.

[Peter Pallotta]

Tim - good post, thanks. I appreciate you focusing on and sticking to "golf", and your thoughtful and insightful reply.
Peter

[Kalen Braley]

This is an interesting premise....even if I don't quite "get" it.
 
I do get the ties with golf and conservatism, but I don't see its tentacles being as far reaching as you think.  The vast majority of golf, in the US at least, is Muni golf.  And this kind of golf is where you will find very few stuffed shirts and far more jeans and t-shirts on the course.  Someone like the Donald would stick out like a sore thumb on all of the courses I play regularly and most of the courses I've played over the years.
 
The heart of the game in my opinion is still at the Weekend Warrior/Muni level, even if big money still controls the USGA and all the best clubs...

[Mark Pavy]

Yes, I think so.
Sure, there is the apparent sound and fury all around us, and yet it signifies nothing.
The "framework" of modern day culture -- including the golfing industry and its media - is essentially conservative, but it is so deeply embedded now and so widely embraced that is has become normative, and so very few seem even to notice it anymore. 
Money. Recognition. Power/control. Marketing. Industry Associations. Prestige. The Corporation. Synergies. Master's Programs.  The Art of the Deal. Branding. 
I don't know much about contemporary music, and less every day. But I remember when 'rap' was Public Enemy and not Kanye West -- about challenging "The Man" instead of becoming Him. 
The Golf Media: an unabashed and unashamed tool of the Establishment, and openly so -- reflecting the ultimate sign that we're living in profoundly conservative times, i.e. the wide-spread belief that there is no such thing as "selling out" anymore, since nothing could be higher or greater or more devoutly to be sought than membership in the Club.
There are no more Deep Throats now hiding in the shadows, prodding along determined journalists searching for the Truth; they are not hiding but out in the open on sunny patios, feeding their lines and messages in pre-packaged press releases that the PR men journalists merely have to reformat into a different font before posting them instantly online. And about the Truth? Ah, the culture says: don't be so naïve. 
Peter

Golf is the truth, the written word, not so much.

[Ian Andrew]

Peter,

I find it fascinating that so much "new" golf course work is essentially following the same path from development to design. While there is some variety, in many instances we are simply being presented a variation on the same theme over and over. While the concepts and principals may be excellent, it doesn't mean this is the absolute pinnacle of the art form. But in many circles its being treated as such.

I do think this is the era of Manet, Renoir, Degas, Cezanne. Beautiful works that will stand the test of time and be appreciated for many generations to come. I've certainly enjoyed venturing very far and wide to see some remarkable landscapes by these artists. People have called this the new Golden Age, but it's not. It's missing the depth and breath of work that brought the wide variety of ideas that have managed to keep me guessing and learning for decades. That's what I feel this decade is missing.

What's missing for me personally is the counterpoint, the contrasting view, the reaction, the response. The challenge. It makes everything more interesting and exciting. And I believe that's good for the leading artists too because it essentially challenges them to bring their game up a notch or two in response to the challenge.

[Sean_A]

Ian


Do you mean a counterpoint from and by the media darlings?  I definitely see a counterpoint out there which can be quite polarizing and unfortunately often relies on carts.  I definitely see the breadth of ideas and tastes in new courses, but unlike some of the classic courses, they haven't had their time to be digested.  Let people sink their teeth into these courses for 50 or 60 years then we shall see what gives.  In other words, its far too early call it on this past 20 years or so.  Plus, this show could go on for quite some time.


Ciao   

[cary lichtenstein]

This is about golf??? and architecture?


I don't think so

[Mike_Young]

it's about the Big House in Carlsbad and the Big House in Beaverton.  More than ever, as hard as that is to believe.

Peter,
Yes, Peter, the golf business has been a huge part of confusing the game itself. 
Google a few of the State Golf Industry reports.  I think the turf/maintenance side of golf is much much larger than the retail side. 

But still the biggest thing we have to overcome is confusing golf with RE development.  I don't even think that type of development should be counted anymore.  For instance, the new TW course is having a grand opening with just 7 holes open and the mags are hyping it?  Come on....
As much as I hate to admit it, I have come to realize that golf has to be subsidized to make it today.  It can be a private dues paying club or a muni course but a golf course owned by a private enterprise and trying to sell green fees is a difficult if not impossible task. 

[Jud_T]

Not sure why this is much of a surprise.  The golfers who play most of the courses we discuss regularly are primarily well-to-do and by the understandable desire to vote their own interests, mostly conservative politically.  Follow the money, baby.  Even at the lower end, golf ain't cheap.  You need clubs, balls, shoes, 100+ acres of land and a fair amount of free time and motivation to play it regularly.  Golf investment, like all investments post-bubble are more conservative.  Easy money, once-over due dilligence and wild risk-taking are, for the most part, ancient history.  If the conservative status-quo is now top flight minimalist tracks, well it could be worse.  The silver lining is that economic prudence is ridding us of some of the worst excesses of the previous decades, both within golf clubs and more broadly.  If you've only got so much cash to go around, you better be putting it into the golf course and it's enjoyment by your members and not into scented towels, bag boys and tablecloths.  Perhaps the 0.1%ers are just lying low as ostentatious displays of wealth aren't currently politically correct, and political correctness has never been more important. 

[George Pazin]

This is the first time I can recall a thread that was both profound and profoundly ignorant, right from the start.


I won't share more publicly. I need a drink. Or three.

[Peter Pallotta]

George - because of my respect and affection for you, it's important for me that you know I had absolutely no intention to talk 'politics' on this thread. (If I had, I would've at least had the courtesy to label it OT). First, because I simply don't want to talk about politics, and secondly because that's not the kind of "conservative" I wanted to explore. I'm heartened by the fact that, from what I can tell, only Frank and Cary seemed to think it was about/tried to make it about politics; and that someone like Ian understood what it was actually about. What started the thread for me was the interview with/thread about David M Kidd. That developed into a good discussion; and my point there and here was this: that it is stunning to me that the current ethos/consensus approach is so fixed, so seemingly rule-bound, and so established that DMK would criticize his own past work simply because (or so it seems to me) it doesn't "fit in" to the mold, one that we're all familiar with and that has been "pegged" to Mike K. Now, it is a lovely and viable mold, yes; but that fixed/establish kind of ideology is what I call "conservative" - not in the political sense (and not in the context of American political life), but in the etymological sense, e.g. to conserve/preserve/maintain. I thought my explicit reference to culture and then my even more explicit reference to golf and the golfing media would've made that clear. It didn't, I see. But -- and I don't think I've ever used this phrase here before, and I'm not a fan of it generally --  it seems clear that, if some insist on seeing party politics and attacks from one side against another, it "says more about them than it does about me".
Best
Peter

[Dan Kelly]

I thought my explicit reference to culture and then my even more explicit reference to golf and the golfing media would've made that clear.

Peter --


Sorry, but it wasn't (still isn't) clear to me what you wanted to talk about and what you mean by "conservative."


You, a reasonable person, can certainly understand how a reasonable person reading these words would think you have something much, much bigger than golf in mind (emphasis added):


"The 'framework' of modern day culture -- including the golfing industry and its media -- is essentially conservative, but it is so deeply embedded now and so widely embraced that it has become normative, and so very few seem even to notice it anymore. Money. Recognition. Power/control. Marketing. Industry Associations. Prestige. The Corporation. Synergies. Master's Programs. The Art of the Deal. Branding."



As for truth and the media: I can assure you that I spend my days surrounded by journalists who do care about the truth ... and who would reach it more often if others were more often willing to tell it.


Dan

[Tom_Doak]

Dan:


Was your post redacted by the Feds?


[Oh, I just realized those are lines of 2-point text]

[Kalen Braley]

Peter,

Based on your initial post, I certainly saw an easy parallel into todays current state of affairs in general...but choose to keep it to just golf.

Last thing this forum needs is another political battle, especially right now as things are heating up and the sides are seemingly farther apart than ever...

[Dan Kelly]

Dan:


Was your post redacted by the Feds?


[Oh, I just realized those are lines of 2-point text]

Fixed. See above.

[Garland Bayley]

If you don't think golf is conservative, just start proposing changes to your course, and be good at dodging what comes your way.

[Tim Gavrich]

I don't understand how anyone who doesn't know what the word "conserve" means can fail to see what Peter is driving at in this thread.


But to put it on the up and up, "conserve" means "protect (something, especially an environmentally or culturally important place or thing) from harm or destruction.[/size][size=78%]"[/size]