[Wayne_Kozun]

The Biarritz at Cabot Links is 230 yards from the Green tees which is a pretty good poke.  That is about the length of my average drive so I have no choice but to run the ball in.

[Keith OHalloran]

If a Biarritz is 220 a cross bunker would normally be around 180 from the tee. Am [size=78%]I the only one that would have trouble trying to hit a low shot that flies more that 180, stays straight and does not fly to the back? I personally am better off hitting a full high hybrid and hoping for the back tier. That is more a statement about my game though.[/size]

[Sven Nilsen]

If a Biarritz is 220 a cross bunker would normally be around 180 from the tee. Am [size=78%]I the only one that would have trouble trying to hit a low shot that flies more that 180, stays straight and does not fly to the back? I personally am better off hitting a full high hybrid and hoping for the back tier. That is more a statement about my game though.[/size]

Keith:


Where do you get the thought that a cross bunker is an essential element of the hole?  Flanking bunkers are a different story.


Sven

[Ronald Montesano]

According to the pin sheet, they never pin the front of the Biarritz at Old Mac. Does that take away from its credentials as a Biarritz? Why would you not pin the front of a Biarritz from time to time? I found the Biarritz at Old Mac to kick hard from right to left, an added challenge to the hole.


The first one I played was at Fox Chapel. Pounded that three-iron to the front, ran it up to the back and had a look at birdie. I was hooked. Yale's B unfortunately has that steep-ass back portion, which I think makes it harder to pin (am I correct?)


When I visited Camargo, I found that they cut the front portion to fairway height and believe that all B should be configured like this.


Lots of food for thought. I think a slightly elevated tee works best, but not one that turns it into a drop-shot hole.

[Sven Nilsen]

Ron:


"Green behind the swale."  Go back and read what CBM wrote about the template.


Sven

[Sven Nilsen]

Am [size=78%]I the only one that would have trouble trying to hit a low shot that flies more that 180, stays straight and does not fly to the back?[/size]

I keep coming back to this thought from Keith.


First, the idea of keeping the shot straight is exactly the challenge CBM was trying to create.


Second, and a reason that I don't think any hole of this style with a cross-hazard (like Yale) is a true Biarritz, I don't think he really cared how you covered the ultimate yardage.


Sven

[Ronald Montesano]

Ron:


"Green behind the swale."  Go back and read what CBM wrote about the template.


Sven

I don't know what this means. i don't have any writings from CBM at my disposal, so I'll have to count on you for elaboration. Wasn't the Biarritz originally in France? Was CBM describing the original or was he giving his own opinion.

[Ronald Montesano]

Second, and a reason that I don't think any hole of this style with a cross-hazard (like Yale) is a true Biarritz, I don't think he really cared how you covered the ultimate yardage.
Sven

Didn't the original Biarritz traverse a canyon? Would said canyon be considered a cross-hazard?

[Sven Nilsen]

Second, and a reason that I don't think any hole of this style with a cross-hazard (like Yale) is a true Biarritz, I don't think he really cared how you covered the ultimate yardage.
Sven

Didn't the original Biarritz traverse a canyon?

No.

[Bill Brightly]

Sven and Pat,


The hole can measure 260 from the Black tee when the pin is all the way back. A pin in the center of back section plays 245, so it is a 230 carry to make it over the swale.


That is just about my maximum carry these days, but I can hold the green with a high driver that just carries the swale.(Except when the green is really firm.)


The bigger hitters use 3 wood or rescue club. Remember, the back section is 30 yards deep, so there is room for the ball to stop.


Sven, I agree that carrying the ball 200 and letting it roll out would seem like a better play than using out driver. I tried that but there are two problems: 1) If my 200 yard shot was too elevated it did not have enough roll to make it up the swale and 2) when I tries forcing a low draw or some other shot that would fly low and roll out, my direction was poor and I was missing left or right in the short flanking bunkers. That was leaving a really difficult 30-40 yard bunker shot and I was lucky if I made bogey. So I went back to using 3 wood or 3 rescue from the Blue tees, and driver from the Blacks, taking my chances with the back side bunkers when I miss.

[Keith OHalloran]

Sven,
In the Evangelist, George Bahto states that the Biarritz usually has a framing bunker short of the green.  I have played Piping Rock, Chicago, Westhampton and Tamarack which all have the framing bunkers short. I have also played Fishers Island, Yale and The Creek Club all of which require you to carry the ball some distance in the air.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Bill,
 
The  back tier at  your  course is very large, as is Forsgates.
 
Westhamptons is much smaller.
 
The carry at your course is more than 230.
 
What amateur plays a hole/feature that requires a minimum carry of 230, at 230 ?
 
Most would play it at 240 to allow for margins of error, wind, etc,. etc..
 
Nobody's hitting irons and regularly flying them straight at 240 other than the PGA Tour Pros

[V. Kmetz]

Hello again,


Because there are so many variables, this thread is difficult to give answer...

1. the origins of this style are still nebulous to me; I've never heard a definitive answer as to which of the original French course (or amalgam) was grafted in the first iterations made over here.

2. the intents of the style are still unclear to me; the maintenance of the front pad as green or fairway (and finding pleasure in both) has solid arguments of facility and appearance on either side .

3. the contemporary application of this style is still in doubt with me; I think a 200-230 shot, "behaving like that..." was much more natural adjunct/natural point of challenge to the players and equipment of the era in which it was founded, then to the hi-flying, go far controlled spin properties of the game today. I think if Mac or Raynor or Banks watched a crack player of today loft a 7-iron to the front pad of Yale's Biarritz, they would be appreciative of the skill, but disappointed in what the hole permitted or provoked.

The only thing I can kind of hang my hat on is that in whole or in part, is that I believe Charlie thought you should "see" the shot; that part of the amusement and conjuring of the hole is to have that moment when you see the fortune of your shot...that a contour such as this is essentially pointless if the player is blind to the action.

With that one notice in mind, I have to think that the hole is best realized (despite the other unsettled matters) when it is AT LEAST level, or a tad downhill.

cheers
vk

[Sven Nilsen]

Sven,
In the Evangelist, George Bahto states that the Biarritz usually has a framing bunker short of the green.  I have played Piping Rock, Chicago, Westhampton and Tamarack which all have the framing bunkers short. I have also played Fishers Island, Yale and The Creek Club all of which require you to carry the ball some distance in the air.

Keith:


George also thought the inspiration for this hole was the Chasm Hole at Biarritz.  It was not.


This is taken from David Moriarty's description of the origin's of the hole in The Original Biarritz thread, which is worth a read (http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,21926.75.html):


Briefly on the history of the original concept . . .[/size]CBM and Whigham visited Biarritz (with Arnaud Massy) in early 1906 on their tour of great courses in preparation for the creation of NGLA, and CBM  mentioned what became known as his Biarritz concept shortly thereafter in a letter printed in a June 20, 1906 NY Sun article about his recent trip abroad: "The best holes have not been found on the five British championship links alone.  . . . The idea for one hole comes from Biarritz.  The hole in question is not a good one, but it revealed a fine and original principle that will be incorporated into my selection."  No mention of the famous chasm --the description of the hole as "not very good" would seem an incongruous reference if he was referring to the famous Chasm.  While CBM referred to the 12th hole, at that time the Chasm hole at Biarritz was the 3rd hole and was only around 100 yards or less, and flipping the nines doesn't work because of quirks in the layout.  And I have never read any description of the famous Chasm Hole that mentioned a hogs-back or a swale, or the method of playing using the ground game.   So, as far as I can tell, the original Biarritz concept was based on a different hole at Biarritz, likely one down by the water in the Chambre d'Amore (the 12th on the map.)CBM expanded on the description later that year in his article on ideal holes in Outing Magazine where he provided a sample listing of 18 holes: "15. 210 yards. Suggested by 12th Biarritz making sharp hog back in the middle of the course.  Stopping thirty yards from the hole bunkered to the right of the green and good low ground to the left of the plateau green." Again no mention of the famous Chasm.  Rather, CBM described a "sharp hog back" in the middle of the course [hole] ending 30 yards short.  And the green is a plateau, with a large swale short of the green. H.J. Whigham repeated this early understanding in 1913 when describing  the inspiration for Piping Rock's Biarritz:  "There is a Biarritz hole of about 220 yards which is new to this country and is one of the best one-shot holes in existence. There is a hog's back extending to within thirty yards of the green and a dip between the hog's back and the green." Again, nothing about a Chasm, and nothing indicating that they were referring to the Chasm Hole (which was quite famous and called "The Chasm") as opposed to a less noteworthy hole at Biarritz.


Sven[/size]

[Jim Nugent]

The only thing I can kind of hang my hat on is that in whole or in part, is that I believe Charlie thought you should "see" the shot; that part of the amusement and conjuring of the hole is to have that moment when you see the fortune of your shot...that a contour such as this is essentially pointless if the player is blind to the action.

I believe the second Biarritz CBM built was at St. Louis CC, which opened around 1914.  The green is elevated above the tee: you cannot see your shot run through the swale.  So almost from the start, he apparently wasn't that concerned about blindness. 

[Ronald Montesano]

Thank you, Sven. That answers the second of my questions...or was it the first? Or both?

[Frank Giordano]

When I played the Biarritz in April 2014, my 7 iron with the ProV1x landed a few feet short of the pin, on the green, pretty close to the pin, ... an awfully good shot, I'd have to say ... then took one bounce and rolled across the tier and into the deep swale.  My next three strokes had me feeling like Sisyphus, but my fourth putt made it to the top of the putting surface where, disheartened, I didn't give the hole any more opportunities to savage me.  None of that shock of delight at the tee for me, as my ball disappeared into the swale, the deep and wide swale, and seemed to die there. 

At the end of my quick tour around the course, I circled back to the Biarritz and hit an 8 iron, which landed about 8-10 feet short of the green, started rolling smoothly at once, and wound up close enough to the hole to kick in.  As no one else was on the course and daylight still remained, I went back to the tee and played the hole again, with two more 8 irons this time, and achieved the same result as previously, with more or less long kick-ins.  No longer a tragic Greek figure, I decided the Biarritz in West Virginia was at least the equal to the one in Connecticut, with the advantage that, unlike at Yale, I didn't have to see my desolate tee shot staring at me as I worked myself all the way to the hole.

[Sven Nilsen]

Back to Keith's point on the cross-bunkers or hazards.  There are more examples of Biarritz holes built without this type of obstacle than those with it.  Shoreacres, the Links Club, Sleepy Hollow, etc.  There are a few where the flanking bunkers pinch the opening to the hole (see the Deepdale hole as a prime example).


I believe that CBM thought that the shot required would be in the air, I don't think he ever envisioned the hole being played by carrying the ball all the way to the back tier.  The shot demanded by this template was a ball that would land on or near the "hogsback" or front portion of the green (whether grassed as such or not) which would bounce and roll through the swale to the back portion.  The key to the hole was being able to judge where the ball would first bounce and how it would react after that point (with historical distance ideas and firmness of turf back then being kept in mind).  This thought may have changed in certain instances, with the hole at Yale being an interesting if not overthought discussion.


The question as to whether or not the original concept has now become obsolete depends on who you talk to.  Assuming the hole is pinned in the back section, the great majority of players are still going to attack the hole as CBM envisioned.  For the elite, the hole becomes a long drop and stop hole.


But does this make it obsolete?  If so, are there holes at ANGC that are now obsolete as they are played by the pros in a different manner than the architects intended?  Did the unreachable par 5's on tour become obsolete once Tiger started dropping 3-woods to 15 feet?

[Jason Thurman]

The reason that the Biarritz is obsolete in my eyes while the holes at Augusta are not is simple: The holes at Augusta are still compelling even if they don’t play exactly as Mackenzie and Jones envisioned. The Biarritz, on the other hand, is a one-trick pony. The template calls for a long, flat green (aside from the swale itself) with penal bunkering. For the player who can carry the ball to the back tier, it’s a wholly uninteresting idea where the architectural challenge is almost entirely determined by whether or not the tee shot hits its target. The Biarritz can be very exciting for the <80 mph swing speed guy who carries the ball 200 yards or less and is playing the right course in the right conditions that allow his ball to bounce out of sight and then reappear, but it’s pretty dull for the guy who can just hit it over the swale. For the latter, it’s just funky-looking target golf with a flat putt awaiting a good strike and punishment awaiting a poor one. It’s not entirely the hole’s fault of course – much of the hole’s interest has been compromised by equipment changes that Macdonald couldn’t have foreseen. But as a lover of long par 3s who plays them with modern equipment and a 105 mph swing speed, I’m not enthralled with the Biarritz.

I did play Black Creek last year, with its meaty Biarritz that’s intended to give a player in 2015 a taste of what it was like hitting at a Biarritz in 1915. We went back to 270 and hit a ball with our drivers just for fun. Maybe if I had hit the shot well enough to watch it run through the swale I would’ve chortled with joy, but I suspect I’d only pull that shot off one out of every 15 plays at best. It’s just not a template that scales well for the modern game in my eyes. I think a good Short or Eden hole can be more exciting today than it was in Macdonald’s day, and the Redan has never stopped being a blast to play. But it seems to me that the Biarritz is decisively less interesting today than it used to be.

[Bill Brightly]

Bill,
 
The  back tier at  your  course is very large, as is Forsgates.
 
Westhamptons is much smaller.
 
The carry at your course is more than 230.
 
What amateur plays a hole/feature that requires a minimum carry of 230, at 230 ?
 
Most would play it at 240 to allow for margins of error, wind, etc,. etc..
 
Nobody's hitting irons and regularly flying them straight at 240 other than the PGA Tour Pros

I played the hole from the Blacks two weeks ago. The pin was in the back of the green and I shot the distance at 256. I'd say the pin was 10 paces back from center, so let's call dead center of the green 246, ok? The entire green including swale is 78 yards deep. The swale is about 12 yards deep from front to back. The back portion of the green is about 36 yards deep. So there is 18 yards from the center of the (back) green to the edge of  the swale. 246-18=228.

But I will shoot those specific distances the next time I am there.

[Bill Brightly]

Sven,
In the Evangelist, George Bahto states that the Biarritz usually has a framing bunker short of the green.  I have played Piping Rock, Chicago, Westhampton and Tamarack which all have the framing bunkers short. I have also played Fishers Island, Yale and The Creek Club all of which require you to carry the ball some distance in the air.

Keith:


George also thought the inspiration for this hole was the Chasm Hole at Biarritz.  It was not.


This is taken from David Moriarty's description of the origin's of the hole in The Original Biarritz thread, which is worth a read (http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,21926.75.html):


Briefly on the history of the original concept . . .[/size]CBM and Whigham visited Biarritz (with Arnaud Massy) in early 1906 on their tour of great courses in preparation for the creation of NGLA, and CBM  mentioned what became known as his Biarritz concept shortly thereafter in a letter printed in a June 20, 1906 NY Sun article about his recent trip abroad: "The best holes have not been found on the five British championship links alone.  . . . The idea for one hole comes from Biarritz.  The hole in question is not a good one, but it revealed a fine and original principle that will be incorporated into my selection."  No mention of the famous chasm --the description of the hole as "not very good" would seem an incongruous reference if he was referring to the famous Chasm.  While CBM referred to the 12th hole, at that time the Chasm hole at Biarritz was the 3rd hole and was only around 100 yards or less, and flipping the nines doesn't work because of quirks in the layout.  And I have never read any description of the famous Chasm Hole that mentioned a hogs-back or a swale, or the method of playing using the ground game.   So, as far as I can tell, the original Biarritz concept was based on a different hole at Biarritz, likely one down by the water in the Chambre d'Amore (the 12th on the map.)CBM expanded on the description later that year in his article on ideal holes in Outing Magazine where he provided a sample listing of 18 holes: "15. 210 yards. Suggested by 12th Biarritz making sharp hog back in the middle of the course.  Stopping thirty yards from the hole bunkered to the right of the green and good low ground to the left of the plateau green." Again no mention of the famous Chasm.  Rather, CBM described a "sharp hog back" in the middle of the course [hole] ending 30 yards short.  And the green is a plateau, with a large swale short of the green. H.J. Whigham repeated this early understanding in 1913 when describing  the inspiration for Piping Rock's Biarritz:  "There is a Biarritz hole of about 220 yards which is new to this country and is one of the best one-shot holes in existence. There is a hog's back extending to within thirty yards of the green and a dip between the hog's back and the green." Again, nothing about a Chasm, and nothing indicating that they were referring to the Chasm Hole (which was quite famous and called "The Chasm") as opposed to a less noteworthy hole at Biarritz.


Sven[/size]

Sven,

Can you expand on how the approach of this hole may have been bunkered? Were there hazards on both sides?

[Bill Brightly]

According to the pin sheet, they never pin the front of the Biarritz at Old Mac. Does that take away from its credentials as a Biarritz? Why would you not pin the front of a Biarritz from time to time? I found the Biarritz at Old Mac to kick hard from right to left, an added challenge to the hole.


The first one I played was at Fox Chapel. Pounded that three-iron to the front, ran it up to the back and had a look at birdie. I was hooked. Yale's B unfortunately has that steep-ass back portion, which I think makes it harder to pin (am I correct?)


When I visited Camargo, I found that they cut the front portion to fairway height and believe that all B should be configured like this.


Lots of food for thought. I think a slightly elevated tee works best, but not one that turns it into a drop-shot hole.

Ron,

My opinion is that the pin should almost never be placed in the front section. (I kid with our superintendent that it is OK to put it there for outings only when he wants to give the grass in back a rest.) My reasoning is that the front section was designed to be the approach on every Biarritz (yes Pat, even Yale's!) and the challenge was to run it between the hazards in order to reach the putting surface. The fact that most courses are maintaining the front section at putting surface height does NOT mean a pin belongs there. In fact, it turns a very difficult hole into a rather boring 170-180 par three. And if you really care about your handicap, every time you play to a front pin your playing a course that is rated too highly...

I agree the front should be maintained as putting surface because that is the best way to replicate the very firm surface that probably existed when Macdonald, Raynor and Banks built their holes before modern irrigation systems were installed. Just don't put the pin there and NEVER in the swale, unless you want something goofy for a Greenskeepers Revenge day .

[Sven Nilsen]

Sven,
In the Evangelist, George Bahto states that the Biarritz usually has a framing bunker short of the green.  I have played Piping Rock, Chicago, Westhampton and Tamarack which all have the framing bunkers short. I have also played Fishers Island, Yale and The Creek Club all of which require you to carry the ball some distance in the air.

Keith:


George also thought the inspiration for this hole was the Chasm Hole at Biarritz.  It was not.


This is taken from David Moriarty's description of the origin's of the hole in The Original Biarritz thread, which is worth a read (http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,21926.75.html):


Briefly on the history of the original concept . . .CBM and Whigham visited Biarritz (with Arnaud Massy) in early 1906 on their tour of great courses in preparation for the creation of NGLA, and CBM  mentioned what became known as his Biarritz concept shortly thereafter in a letter printed in a June 20, 1906 NY Sun article about his recent trip abroad: "The best holes have not been found on the five British championship links alone.  . . . The idea for one hole comes from Biarritz.  The hole in question is not a good one, but it revealed a fine and original principle that will be incorporated into my selection."  No mention of the famous chasm --the description of the hole as "not very good" would seem an incongruous reference if he was referring to the famous Chasm.  While CBM referred to the 12th hole, at that time the Chasm hole at Biarritz was the 3rd hole and was only around 100 yards or less, and flipping the nines doesn't work because of quirks in the layout.  And I have never read any description of the famous Chasm Hole that mentioned a hogs-back or a swale, or the method of playing using the ground game.   So, as far as I can tell, the original Biarritz concept was based on a different hole at Biarritz, likely one down by the water in the Chambre d'Amore (the 12th on the map.)CBM expanded on the description later that year in his article on ideal holes in Outing Magazine where he provided a sample listing of 18 holes: "15. 210 yards. Suggested by 12th Biarritz making sharp hog back in the middle of the course.  Stopping thirty yards from the hole bunkered to the right of the green and good low ground to the left of the plateau green." Again no mention of the famous Chasm.  Rather, CBM described a "sharp hog back" in the middle of the course [hole] ending 30 yards short.  And the green is a plateau, with a large swale short of the green. H.J. Whigham repeated this early understanding in 1913 when describing  the inspiration for Piping Rock's Biarritz:  "There is a Biarritz hole of about 220 yards which is new to this country and is one of the best one-shot holes in existence. There is a hog's back extending to within thirty yards of the green and a dip between the hog's back and the green." Again, nothing about a Chasm, and nothing indicating that they were referring to the Chasm Hole (which was quite famous and called "The Chasm") as opposed to a less noteworthy hole at Biarritz.


Sven

Sven,

Can you expand on how the approach of this hole may have been bunkered? Were there hazards on both sides?

Bill:


From the original description of the template from CBM's write up of his ideal course, there was to be a bunker on the right and low ground to the left.  In front of the "green" was the hogsback feature, which we now see incorporated as the front portion of the green.


The most common theme I've seen is to have flanking bunkers on each side of the green.  Sometimes they extend all the way up to the hogsback, sometimes they are just located by the rear portion.  In some instances, those bunkers pinch in just before the landing area, allowing a shorter straight ball to run through but punishing those slightly off line.  In certain instances, a carry at least to the front of the hogsback was required, but that was the exception rather than the rule.  As always, CBM and SR were adapting these holes to the land available.


I agree with you that the front portion should never be pinned.  If it is, it just isn't a Biarritz hole.  I also think that the holes should be of a length to require the type of shot CBM envisioned (excepting how Jason and the rest of the 105+ swing speed crowd play the hole).  In addition, the green surface should be firm enough so that any ball landing on the back portion only has a slight chance of holding the green.


The two modern Biarritz's that we talk about (Black Creek and OM) come up a bit short in meeting the original concept.  OM is just too short of a hole, although it is very hard to hit and hold that back portion.  Its saving grace is that it is on just about the firmest turf you'll find in the U.S.  Black Creek's is also a shorter version (adapting for distance changes over time).  They do have a back set of tees stretching out to 240 (I'm not so sure about the 270 number Jason threw out there, perhaps they have a way back set that's not on their card), but the tees most folks are going to be playing only stretch the hole out to a little more than the yardage CBM was building.


There's an interesting discussion somewhere in here about the lengthening of ANGC while maintaining the members tees and the lack of lengthening in general of Biarritz holes over the years.  I'd guess most of them still play close to their original yardages, with some perhaps having been lengthened a bit but none "tiger-proofed."  Jason is right that the hole does still work very well for a set of golfers, he just underestimates how big that set is.  And he and I can agree to disagree on the interest of the hole, he probably wouldn't appreciate the thought that someone who could play the aerial route might choose to play the running shot, even if it wasn't the scorecard prudent method.


Sven

[Jason Thurman]

The two modern Biarritz's that we talk about (Black Creek and OM) come up a bit short in meeting the original concept.  OM is just too short of a hole, although it is very hard to hit and hold that back portion.  Its saving grace is that it is on just about the firmest turf you'll find in the U.S.  Black Creek's is also a shorter version (adapting for distance changes over time).  They do have a back set of tees stretching out to 240 (I'm not so sure about the 270 number Jason threw out there, perhaps they have a way back set that's not on their card), but the tees most folks are going to be playing only stretch the hole out to a little more than the yardage CBM was building.


There's an interesting discussion somewhere in here about the lengthening of ANGC while maintaining the members tees and the lack of lengthening in general of Biarritz holes over the years.  I'd guess most of them still play close to their original yardages, with some perhaps having been lengthened a bit but none "tiger-proofed."  Jason is right that the hole does still work very well for a set of golfers, he just underestimates how big that set is.  And he and I can agree to disagree on the interest of the hole, he probably wouldn't appreciate the thought that someone who could play the aerial route might choose to play the running shot, even if it wasn't the scorecard prudent method.


Sven

Black Creek's Biarritz is around 285 yards from the back of the tee box to the back of the green. As Doug Stein discussed with us on the day we played, this was a very intentional decision to make it feasible to replicate the shot with modern equipment as closely as possible to what it would have been in Macdonald's day. He suggested before the round that we all try a shot from back there, and after my initial objection I gave it a go. Playing from near the back of the tee it was playing every bit of 270 during my round. Of course, we were only back there for kicks after hitting our "real" tee shots from about 230. I don't know how often the tees are moved all the way back, and I would guess it's not frequent.


And yeah, I'm not compelled by the options that become available when someone decides to abandon the "scorecard prudent method" for the sake of some giggles. You can convince yourself that almost any hole is interesting if you abandon the concept of trying to finish it in as few strokes as possible, but I think the object of the game is an important thing to keep in mind when evaluating golf holes. I guess that's just my inner retail golfer...

[Sven Nilsen]

Jason:


I'd suggest you find Devereux Emmet's write-up on Piping Rock, in which he describes the merits of their Biarritz (the first built in the US).  He calls it a "cleek shot" with a driver perhaps being necessary for the shorter players.  Your Driver from 270 yards was probably overstepping the intentions of the hole by a bit.  But since we've brought up strategy, perhaps you would have been better off dialing it back to a straighter club thus ensuring you'd hit the green and hope for the roll out.  Surely you can hit your hybrid on a rope, even with your 105 mph swing speed, and at 285 to the back it must have been right in your range to land one on the front tier. 


I'm sure Seve loved the Biarritz.  Its a shot makers hole, where skills like delofting the club come into play.  The game was more fun when everyone wasn't telling me how one-dimensional it should be. 


Sven

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