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Marty Bonnar

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Is this the Nedlog age?
« on: November 04, 2015, 12:55:14 PM »
If C&C do get to join Doak by building here in Scotland, could this be the beginning of a reverse golden age where the best of US architects come here and create interesting, modern golf courses which inspire our local architects/builders/developers into more creative thinking?
Be cool if it was...

Cheers,
F.
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The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

David_Tepper

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Re: Is this the Nedlog age?
« Reply #1 on: November 04, 2015, 01:02:51 PM »
Martin -

In addition to Doak at Renaissance and C&C at Embo, Gil Hanse worked at Castle Stuart and Craighead Crail. Kyle Phillips worked at Kingsbarns and Dundonald. Weiskopf did the Loch Lomond course. Canadian Doug Carrick did another course near there.

It is worth noting most of those situations have been American GCAs working for American owners/developers. Aside from the Craighead course, have their been situations where an American GCA has been retained by a Scottish club or developer?

DT     
« Last Edit: November 04, 2015, 01:38:12 PM by David_Tepper »
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Adam Lawrence

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Re: Is this the Nedlog age?
« Reply #2 on: November 04, 2015, 01:14:17 PM »
Doug Carrick, not David. That was a British developer too, De Vere
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Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

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www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

David_Tepper

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Re: Is this the Nedlog age?
« Reply #3 on: November 04, 2015, 01:38:36 PM »
Adam -

Correction made. Thanks.

DT
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Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is this the Nedlog age?
« Reply #4 on: November 05, 2015, 05:15:05 AM »
Martin


The question is what would you learn from those developments ?


Niall
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Marty Bonnar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is this the Nedlog age?
« Reply #5 on: November 05, 2015, 04:45:18 PM »
So, maybe worth a quick recap.

To date, we've got:
Doak - Renaissance
Hanse - Craighead, Castle Stuart
Philips - Kingsbarns, Dundonald
Weiskopf/Morrish - Loch Lomond
Carrick - ehm, Carrick
Nicklaus - Gleneagles PGA

Is that it so far? Not a huge influx/influence up until now, but we've got time!
One thing to note is that, with the exception of the Craighead, all of these are high end (expensive!) locales. That's unfortunate as it means that the average Joe Scottish golfer is missing out on experiencing the best of American design. I'd love it if one or more of our transatlantic cousins could develop a nice relationship with some more middle of the road Scottish/British courses with the intention of bringing a wider range of product to our market. We all love the the shock of the new! Florida golf for all its faults freaked me out the first time I encountered it.

Who else do you think would make a good fist of a course over here? I bet Strantz would have given us a marvellous paean to Scottish golf and mythology!!!

F.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2015, 05:08:34 PM by Martin Bonnar »
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The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

David_Tepper

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Re: Is this the Nedlog age?
« Reply #6 on: November 05, 2015, 05:06:52 PM »
Martin -

Don't forget Gil Hanse at Castle Stuart. No doubt Mark Parsinen had substantial input in the designs at both Kingsbarns and Castle Stuart. He will likely have the same at the 2nd course at CS in concert with the Palmer design staff.

Be aware that local golfers in the Highlands have been able to play Castle Stuart for as little as 50 pounds ever since it opened, which makes playing there very reasonable relative to the visitor green fees charged at other quality venues in the Highlands. Scottish Golf Union members also get a discounted green fee.

DT   
« Last Edit: November 05, 2015, 05:08:43 PM by David_Tepper »
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John Chilver-Stainer

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Re: Is this the Nedlog age?
« Reply #7 on: November 05, 2015, 05:09:07 PM »
Bruce Devlin the Aussie, who works out of Scottsdale, did the Kittocks at St.Andrews Bay.
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Marty Bonnar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is this the Nedlog age?
« Reply #8 on: November 05, 2015, 05:10:30 PM »
David,
Edited!
John,
If it is to be believed, Sarazen was involved there too...
F.
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The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

JJShanley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is this the Nedlog age?
« Reply #9 on: November 05, 2015, 05:49:29 PM »
FWIW: you can play Dundonald for GBP50 in the summer.  I've had offers from them each month recently. 
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David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is this the Nedlog age?
« Reply #10 on: November 05, 2015, 06:35:47 PM »
To date, we've got:
Doak - Renaissance
Hanse - Craighead, Castle Stuart
Philips - Kingsbarns, Dundonald
Weiskopf/Morrish - Loch Lomond
Carrick - ehm, Carrick
Nicklaus - Gleneagles PGA

Martin -

Aside from the courses listed above, how many other new courses have been built in Scotland in the last 20 years? There is Trump Aberdeen, the 2(?) courses at Archerfield, the Castle Course and Spey Valley. When were Newmacher and the St. Andrews/Fairmont courses built?

DT
« Last Edit: November 05, 2015, 07:35:52 PM by David_Tepper »
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Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is this the Nedlog age?
« Reply #11 on: November 06, 2015, 06:17:33 AM »
David


Not sure if they are strictly within the 20 year timescale but you have the following;


Craigielaw - Tom MacKenzie
Brunton Castle -Donald Steele (Tom MacKenzie)
Rowallan Castle - Ross McMurray ?
Mach Dunes - Paul Kimber
new Gleneagles course (G4 ?) - Paul Kimber
Cardrona - Dave Thomas
Roxburghe - Dave Thomas
The Dukes - Peter Thomson and associates (make over by someone else)
Alyth courses - Tony Wardle ?
Dougalston - Dave Thomas ?
Whitekirk - Cameron Sinclair


I'm sure there are a few more that I haven't thought of.


Niall

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Wayne_Kozun

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is this the Nedlog age?
« Reply #12 on: November 06, 2015, 12:50:16 PM »
And shouldn't it be the

ega nedlog

It almost sounds Gaelic.
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Jon Wiggett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is this the Nedlog age?
« Reply #13 on: November 06, 2015, 02:01:10 PM »
Quote from: Niall Carlton on November 06, 2015, 06:17:33 AM
David


Not sure if they are strictly within the 20 year timescale but you have the following;


Craigielaw - Tom MacKenzie
Brunton Castle -Donald Steele (Tom MacKenzie)
Rowallan Castle - Ross McMurray ?
Mach Dunes - Paul Kimber
new Gleneagles course (G4 ?) - Paul Kimber
Cardrona - Dave Thomas
Roxburghe - Dave Thomas
The Dukes - Peter Thomson and associates (make over by someone else)
Alyth courses - Tony Wardle ?
Dougalston - Dave Thomas ?
Whitekirk - Cameron Sinclair


I'm sure there are a few more that I haven't thought of.


Niall

Here are a few Niall,

Aigas- Bill Mitchel
Ullapool- Unknown
Whitehill House-John Chilver-Stainer
Brahan-Jon Wiggett  :D

Jon
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James Brown

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is this the Nedlog age?
« Reply #14 on: November 06, 2015, 08:01:50 PM »
Probably worth expanding this list to Ireland if we want to get the full picture.  I think there are more American developments there by proportion. 
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Steve Lang

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is this the Nedlog age?
« Reply #15 on: November 07, 2015, 08:48:08 AM »
 8)  Wouldn't it also be fitting that the UK's rich private club folks come to the USA to study up on the design of waterfalls, cart paths, and big clubhouses, to be able to introduce such designs to new projects?
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