Was a prominent golden age architect involved at this course?

[Joe Bausch]

I don't want to name the course nor do I want any GCAers to say "I know that course"! 

This is an exercise in seeing if this fairly detailed oblique aerial might suggest a possible prominent golden age architect. 

This course was built in 1924 and is located on or near the East coast.  This picture was taken in 1934.  Note:  it is clickable to yield a much larger size.



The hole-sequencing from an old scorecard:



Thanks for your cooperation and perhaps participation.   

[jeffwarne]

Seems like a course built in 1924 would be by definition "designed by a Golden Age architect" even if he was a one time amateur and we never heard of him.


I find it fascinating how the architect located nearly every green near a group of trees, on a nearly treeless piece of property.


Leading one to believe what I've always believed.
That original pictures of treeless courses weren't always "what the architect intended" but rather simly the state of the piece of land he was given.
Unless he wrote it or spoke it, we don't know what an architect intended, and it wouldn't surprise me at all if an architect thought how much nicer a piece of property would be once a FEW (planted) trees grew in

[Joe Bausch]

Seems like a course built in 1924 would be by definition "designed by a Golden Age architect" even if he was a one time amateur and we never heard of him.

Ahh, things rarely change around here. 

Original post modified.

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

those greens certainly have a Raynor look to them , with some sharp drop off behind the putting surfaces.


Some really cool looking greens actually.

[Jason Kang]

Bunkering behind some of the greens might steer one away from Ross...

[Joe Bausch]

Not sure it is so relevant, but when this course opened in 1924 it was private.  The club was thriving as far as I can tell, but the land around it was quite valuable.  So this club moved to another site in 1930.  Soon thereafter the original site become public and lasted another 20 years or so.

[Bill Crane]

Educated Guess:
The original Overbrook G C at the current site of Lankanau hospital.   Only problem is Overbrook's website indicates that the course was designed in 1920 and the Donald Ross Society/Tufts Archives list says 1922.
Am I on the right track ?
 
 

[Joe Bausch]

Educated Guess:
The original Overbrook G C at the current site of Lankanau hospital.   Only problem is Overbrook's website indicates that the course was designed in 1920 and the Donald Ross Society/Tufts Archives list says 1922.
Am I on the right track ?

Bill, I'm not asking for the golf course!  I thought I made that clear initially.  I guess not.


I'm wondering is that pretty good oblique aerial and hole-sequencing from the scorecard enough to make an educated guess about a potential golden age architect.


I do not know who was the architect.  Well, I have conflicting info as to who the architect was.  And I'm trying in any way I can to figure this one out!

[Joe Bausch]

The shape of the property is pretty unusual.  If you look at the scorecard, all but one of the first nine holes go around the edge of the property in a clockwise fashion.  Which, of course, is beneficial to the typical golfer that slices. 


Then the back nine utilizes the middle of the property

[Kalen Braley]

The shape of the property is pretty unusual.  If you look at the scorecard, all but one of the first nine holes go around the edge of the property in a clockwise fashion.  Which, of course, is beneficial to the typical golfer that slices. 


Then the back nine utilizes the middle of the property

Whomever it was, you can tell he was channeling some future Star Trek as it looks like the logo, just upside down!! 
 
I'm going to take a stab at it and say...it wasn't a prominent golden age architect.  There are too few bunkers and the ones that are there seem to be consistently placed left and right in front of the greens (occasionally behind) in formulaic fashion.

[Bill Crane]

Educated Guess:
The original Overbrook G C at the current site of Lankanau hospital.   Only problem is Overbrook's website indicates that the course was designed in 1920 and the Donald Ross Society/Tufts Archives list says 1922.
Am I on the right track ?

Joe;

Sorry - brain fart!    Did not focus on the question.   I get seduced by maps, aerials and plans.
 
Bill


Bill, I'm not asking for the golf course!  I thought I made that clear initially.  I guess not.


I'm wondering is that pretty good oblique aerial and hole-sequencing from the scorecard enough to make an educated guess about a potential golden age architect.


I do not know who was the architect.  Well, I have conflicting info as to who the architect was.  And I'm trying in any way I can to figure this one out!

[Josh Bills]

My guess is yes it was a golden age architect.  Looks to me like a copy of Colt's version of Muirfield with the outer and inner loops by someone who attempted to use that formula for this course possibly.   

[mike_malone]

I would not be surprised if it were Findlay. It reminds me of LLanerch's aerial

[Patrick_Mucci]

Joe,
 
Since I follow directions blindly and obeyingly, I'm not going to render any guesses, educated or in complete ignorance.
 
However, I am struck by the simplicity of the course.
 
The use of the boundaries and the  creek, along with the well bunkered greens.
 
I suspect that "angles" were critical to scoring, especially in 1924 when lush conditions refered to party guests.

[Joe Bausch]

I would not be surprised if it were Findlay. It reminds me of LLanerch's aerial

Interesting thought, M2. 

[Buddy Aiken]

Does the hole sequencing (outer/inner loop) suggest Flynn might be a reasonble guess - HVCC and Lehigh come to mind. 
 
Findlay is a great call given the green complexes.

[Joe Bausch]

Does the hole sequencing (outer/inner loop) suggest Flynn might be a reasonble guess - HVCC and Lehigh come to mind. 
 
Findlay is a great call given the green complexes.

Flynn's work is very well documented (get yourself a copy of the Nature Faker to see!) and there is no written evidence he was involved at this club.

[Ed Homsey]

I would rule out Walter Travis.  Though he used "inner-outer" loop routing on a few of his courses, the bunkering of this course is not consistent with the style of bunkering and hazards he used on his late teens, early '20s courses.   

[JNagle]

My first like Mayday is Findlay.  The bunkers behind greens is something he did quite often.  The emphasis on greenside bunkers vs. fairway bunkers is also something he was noted for.  The use of the stream within the routing seems somewhat Flynn like, but does not discount others.  The fairway bunkers which are present are mundane in their shapes and mounding, also a Findlay trait.  Great image.  Thanks for posting

[jeffwarne]

If it was a prominent Golden Age architects........I'd say some modern signatures have been unfairly compared
 Left, right flank nearly every green, and usually one in the back

[Kalen Braley]

If it was a prominent Golden Age architects........I'd say some modern signatures have been unfairly compared
 Left, right flank nearly every green, and usually one in the back

Exactly Jeff,
 
That's what I noticed and pointed out as well.  So if it was a prominent Golden Age guy, then the current crop of modern GCAs shouldn't be catching flak for doing military style (left-right) greenside bunkering indeed!
 
P.S.  Is doing an outside/inside loop routing really the sign of greatness?  Or just a function of making the best use of a particular piece of land??  How many top 50 courses in the world have an inside/outside design?  Muirfield?  Any others?

[David Wuthrich]

I would say yes, golden age.

[MCirba]

My vote is Findlay as well.

[Joe Bausch]

My vote is Findlay as well.

As you know, Findlay was prominent in Philly.  He lived here at that time and all the sportswriters knew him.  Hence, I don't think he was the architect since none of the early articles I have on the club mentions him.

[Josh Bills]

I don't know timelines well enough, but some of the features seem like Colt, trees used, exciting par 3s, raised greens or his partner Alison.  Certainly Alison put bunkers all around like on the Hirono Course in Japan.  While not as simple as these, he was not adverse to putting them behind the green.  That is why my guess is leaning to an ODG from that lineage.  For those who know where people were at various times in the their lives, can I'm sure correct this guess.  Thanks.  Josh