How far should the 16th tee be from the clubhouse?

[David_Elvins]

Simple question.

Ideally speaking, how far should the 16th tee be from the clubhouse?

[JJShanley]

My home course (Warren at Notre Dame) has 4 tees near the clubhouse (1, 7, 10, 16).  16's the closest, followed by 7.  I like that I can use a bathroom mid-round without resorting to a porta-potty, which we do not have on the course.  I've no considered opinion on the matter when it comes to issues of routing.

[Terry Thornton]

Simple question.

Ideally speaking, how far should the 16th tee be from the clubhouse?

Simple answer - 3 holes away. Anything else I can help you with?

[K Rafkin]

1137 yards


No more, no less

[Tom_Doak]

Wow, there's a topic I've never thought about.  I guess as close as the 16th tee at Cypress Point is pretty cool.

[Jon Wiggett]

Wow, there's a topic I've never thought about.  I guess as close as the 16th tee at Cypress Point is pretty cool.

Yes it is cool Tom. But how far is it from the club house and what are the consequences on it's architectural quality of being this distance?

[Mark Pavy]

Roughly the same distance as the 15th Green.

[James Bennett]

somewhere between 400 metres and 1200 metres.

or not.

[Thomas Dai]

Far enough away as to discourage it being used as a starting hole. Shotgun starts in events are one thing, multi-tee starting holes during general play quite another.


Atb

[David_Elvins]

I guess as close as the 16th tee at Cypress Point is pretty cool.

Seriously?  It isn't just a case of the quality of the 16th and 17th holes at Cypress Point negating what would be a design flaw otherwise?  Lost Farm also finishes with a 3 hole loop.  Despite the course being world top 100, and the last three holes being pretty good, they are often skipped.   An unfortunate quirk in the routing creating an unnatural golfing journey, IMO.


I would argue that this is definitely not an ideal distance from 16th tee to clubhouse, despite Cypress Point's success. 

[Ed Tilley]

The 16th tee on the Blue course at Frilford Heath is, by my quick calculation, over 2,000 yards from the clubhouse. 16 is a 200 yard par 3, followed by a 300 yard walk to 17th tee. 17 is a 600 yard par 5. 50 yards to 18 which is a 450 yard par 4. Finally, a 400 yard walk to the clubhouse. I can categorically say that this is not ideal in any way.

[BHoover]

It should be no more than two holes away...unless there's a 19th hole for settling wagers and tiebreakers, in which case being a third hole away is acceptable.

[jeffwarne]

as far away as it needs to end up to be part of the ideal/best routing of the property?


seems like it would be waaay down the list on routing considerations, as even as a beer loop it's impractical as the last three holes are the most likely to be use late in the afternoon

[Bill_McBride]

The 16th tee at the Valley Club is right at the clubhouse, with a strong loop of par 4s to finish the round.


At the other end of the spectrum is the Open routing at Hoylake, where the last three holes total about a mile, with two lengthy par 5s and a brute par 4 17th. 

[Kalen Braley]

David,
 
Can you please provide more context as to the intent of the original question.  I must admit, you've got my gears grinding on where you're heading with this one....
 
I can think of only one right now, a 3 hole loop to serve as a playoff loop during the club tourney?
 
P.S.  ANGC fails this miserably...the 16th tee is one of the furthest spots on the course from the clubhouse....

[Niall C]

David


Like Kalen, I'm not sure of the relevance of how far the 16th tee should be from the clubhouse, and I don't mean that in a snarky way. Just interested to hear your thinking.


FWIW, on my home course the 16th tee is about 50 yards away from the clubhouse, but then the 16th green, 17th tee, 15th green, 14th tee, 13th green, 8th green, 9th tee and of course the 18th green are all about a hundred yards or less. It's a busy old course.


Niall

[Keith OHalloran]

1137 yards


No more, no less

I am sorry, but I disagree, if the 16th is more that 923.25 yards from the club house, I can't take the course seriously.

[Paul Gray]

I have no idea where this is heading but at Camberley it's right by the clubhouse. I have heard it suggested that this is a negative as it gives the player the feeling that the last three holes were/are an after thought. It just so happens though that I think 17 and 18 are two of the best holes on the course, therefore anything but a desperate attempt to squeeze in the required number of holes.

[Kalen Braley]

I have no idea where this is heading but at Camberley it's right by the clubhouse. I have heard it suggested that this is a negative as it gives the player the feeling that the last three holes were/are an after thought. It just so happens thought that I think 17 and 18 are two of the best holes on the course, therefore anything but a desperate attempt to squeeze in the required number of holes.

Most people say that the last 3 at Cypress are chopped liver as well! 
 
P.S.  If I had to guess, the vast majority of courses which are set up on the returning loop system probably don't have a 16 tee in the vicinity of the clubhouse, and by that I mean 200 yards away or closer.

[JWL]

Not really sure, but a more pressing question is 'how far should the 6th hole be from the 16th hole?

[David_Tepper]

It would be interesting to hear from any GCA's as to whether or not they have ever given any consideration to where the 16th tee is placed relative to the clubhouse. I cannot imagine that it is very high on their list of priorities when is comes to routing a course.

[Josh Stevens]

Perhaps this question may be relevant when we look back to the changes to the order of play of Royal Melbourne composite for the 98 Presidents cup.

If I recall, the stats showed that matches end on the 16th more often that other holes, but at RM composite the final 3 holes are spread over a vast area with the 16th green being a million miles from the clubhouse.  As a result, matches finishing early faced a long trudge in.

So they reordered it to have the 16th green near the clubhouse and then playing back out on the what used to be the 1st hole and  back on the 18th.  This was good for crowds, but the old 17th was a top notch par 5,  replaced by a nice but rather pedestrian medium length par 4 that was originally designed as a gentle opener to get the field away with minimal fuss.

Australian golf fans all knew the old order by heart, and this changed confused hell out of us for years. 

I suppose for tournament play, its nice to have the last three holes all near the clubhouse so you get a few roars going up in the event of an exciting finish.

[K Rafkin]

1137 yards


No more, no less

I am sorry, but I disagree, if the 16th is more that 923.25 yards from the club house, I can't take the course seriously.

While 923.25 yards may be fine for a 6500 yrd par 71 however, 1137 yrds just works better on the championship courses I'm used to playing

[Mike Hendren]

Is the most common match play result 4 and 3?

Bogey

[Patrick_Mucci]

David,
 
A review of the "links" courses in the UK should provide some indication that it's mostly irrelevant.
 
Shinnecock's back tee on # 16 is about as far from the clubhouse as you can get.
 
NGLA, GCGC, Mountain Ridge, Sebonack, Atlantic, MPCC (Shore & Dune) would seem to support the premise that the 16th tee's location is mostly irrelevant.