[Mark Sider]

Planning a buddies trip of 4 scratch players to Scottsdale for the winter. Any suggestions on courses to check out? Courses like Greyhawk and Troon really hammer you on the greens fee! We have We Ko Pa lined up for 36 holes. Thank you.

[Jason Way]

Plenty of threads on here to find info on AZ courses.  Suggest searching for some of those to research.


Beyond that, hit Talking Stick North.  It has a handful of the best holes you'll see anywhere.  And if you really want a treat, suck it up and drive out to Apache Stronghold for a day.  It is a singular golf course and experience.

[Bill_McBride]

Southern Dunes probably best value for money.

[Steve Salmen]

I like Southern Dunes a lot. I would play Ambiente over either Talking Stick course by a large margin.

[Jason Way]

I like Southern Dunes a lot. I would play Ambiente over either Talking Stick course by a large margin.

Is Ambiante also called Camelback Golf Club Steve?


What do you like about it?

[JJShanley]

I'd fun playing Wigwam Gold (which I chose because JJS sr. played it in 1977) and Papago during an otherwise disastrous visit to Phoenix for the ND-ASU game this time last year.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Mark,


I'm a local. When in winter? March is the best month- spring training time and ideal weather. Not that January & February are bad but it's always great to bask in the sun and watch some baseball.There are night games if you want to see some baseball.  If you want to avoid Grayhawk/Troon North because of the cost, there are many options, some of which have been mentioned. Wigwam Gold is just one of some very good lower cost courses in the West Valley. Others are Verrado and GC Estrella. The newly renovated Maryvale/Grand Canyon U Course will be open in December. It will be easily walkable and looks like it'll be fun to play. Papago is another good lower cost option. Vista Verde/Tegavah/River Vista Valley Ranch should be mentioned too. I'm not going to name drop any more. PM me if you wish.

[Steve Salmen]

Jason, Ambiente is one of two courses at Camelback. It is literally an out an back routing, and quite a good one.

[A.G._Crockett]

Make the drive to We Ko Pa and play both courses.  You can thank me later.

[Ross Harmon]

I'm making the journey to Apache Stronghold this month... any recent reports from there?

[Ian Mackenzie]

Planning a buddies trip of 4 scratch players to Scottsdale for the winter. Any suggestions on courses to check out? Courses like Greyhawk and Troon really hammer you on the greens fee! We have We Ko Pa lined up for 36 holes. Thank you.

Mark, I have a suggestion...


Instead of going to PHX - where all the golf courses look the same - go to Streamsong in FL.
Better weather, easier to get to, less expensive. BUT, no night life! Except....


If you play 2 days at Streamsong, then go back to Tampa - stop at "the Mons" - then head up the road to World Woods and play there for 2 days. You will save a ton of $$ and play MUCH better golf.

[Jason Topp]

Mark - if you want to save money, go before January 1. 

[Steve_ Shaffer]

If you want to save a lot of money, visit in July and August. 

[Amol Yajnik]

Planning a buddies trip of 4 scratch players to Scottsdale for the winter. Any suggestions on courses to check out? Courses like Greyhawk and Troon really hammer you on the greens fee! We have We Ko Pa lined up for 36 holes. Thank you.

36 holes at We-Ko-Pa on the same day is a treat.  The last time I was in the PHX area, I also played Southern Dunes and Talking Stick North.  I really enjoyed Southern Dunes, but it was almost an hour for me to drive there from the Scottsdale area.  If you are into minimalism, Talking Stick North will be right up your alley.


I have not played Quintero, but if you are willing to drive a fair amount from PHX/Scottsdale, I have heard really good things about that course.

[Bill_McBride]

Planning a buddies trip of 4 scratch players to Scottsdale for the winter. Any suggestions on courses to check out? Courses like Greyhawk and Troon really hammer you on the greens fee! We have We Ko Pa lined up for 36 holes. Thank you.

36 holes at We-Ko-Pa on the same day is a treat.  The last time I was in the PHX area, I also played Southern Dunes and Talking Stick North.  I really enjoyed Southern Dunes, but it was almost an hour for me to drive there from the Scottsdale area.  If you are into minimalism, Talking Stick North will be right up your alley.


I have not played Quintero, but if you are willing to drive a fair amount from PHX/Scottsdale, I have heard really good things about that course.

Southern Dunes is a good choice on fly in or out day, not far from PHX. 

[Jason Way]

I'm making the journey to Apache Stronghold this month... any recent reports from there?

Not terribly recent Ross, but I was there early in the year.  The conditioning tee to green is a little rugged, but the course is outstanding, in a setting that is second to none.


I posted some photos in this thread (scroll down to reply #40):


http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,61541.25.html

[Ross Harmon]

Thanks Jason! I look forward to playing it soon! Will post any updated conditions or new thoughts.

[Doug Wright]

If you all are scratch golfers, play Talking Stick South from the tips on the day you play TS North. The architectural contrast between desert and traditional on the same property is one reason; the other is that TS South is a good, challenging golf course--far more so than TS North in my opinion.   

[Ben Baldwin]

I'm making the journey to Apache Stronghold this month... any recent reports from there?

Played there a few months back, greens were shaggy and had patches of un-puttable GUR.


Some bunkers have been restored, some are still overgrown with bermuda.  They are working to try and get it back, but if you can get past the turf conditions, the bones of the course are still great.

[Matthew Petersen]

Apache is a better bet in the spring/summer months. It's a bit higher elevation and a little cooler there, which doesn't necessarily mean a lot for the high temp in the afternoon (i.e., it's still pretty hot in the summer), but makes their growing schedule a lot tougher in the winter, as night temps drop much more significantly up in Globe than they do in the Valley.


If you can stomach a long drive (and it is a LONG drive from Scottsdale), Wickenburg Ranch is a good bet. I'd play there probably 8-2 over Quintero, which is pretty but not at all special in terms of architecture.

[JT Taylor]

Planning a buddies trip of 4 scratch players to Scottsdale for the winter. Any suggestions on courses to check out? Courses like Greyhawk and Troon really hammer you on the greens fee! We have We Ko Pa lined up for 36 holes. Thank you.

Mark, I have a suggestion...


Instead of going to PHX - where all the golf courses look the same - go to Streamsong in FL.
Better weather, easier to get to, less expensive. BUT, no night life! Except....


If you play 2 days at Streamsong, then go back to Tampa - stop at "the Mons" - then head up the road to World Woods and play there for 2 days. You will save a ton of $$ and play MUCH better golf.

Ian:


I've never been to Streamsong but I was recently researching a possible trip there in February.  I called Streamsong and inquired about the 54 Hole Stay and Play Package and wanted to add one additional round on top of that to make it a two day 36 hole a day trip.  The base rate was $1,107 per person plus $200 for the additional round.  If you wanted to take caddies, which I realize is not mandatory, that is an additional $100ish per round, resulting in another $400.  Add it up and you've got over $1,700 for two days of golf, without including airfare and car and food (the $1,700 does include accommodations at Streamsong as well as breakfast for two days).  While I will likely plan the trip as I very much want to see the Streamsong complex, I find it hard to believe that Streamsong would be a relative bargain to the offerings in Scottsdale.  Am I missing something?


Thanks.

[Jeff Shelman]

I have played Quintero and I will never play Quintero again.

There are very few places on my list of never again courses, but that is one.

[Mike Lacey]

I'm making the journey to Apache Stronghold this month... any recent reports from there?

Tom Yost and I walked a round at AS on Oct 11th.  In short, it is a mess. Greens were OK(ish).  Portions of the fairways and roughs were so wet that they have not been mowed in weeks.  They have, however, experienced cart traffic, which has caused substantial damage.  I personally don't put a lot of stock in the condition of tee boxes, but there was little to no grass on some and very coarse bladed grass overtaking others.  Don't know if that was purposefully installed or not.  The agronomy program is not highlighting the design features of the course.  The wet, rough covered approach and hill on right side of the Redan is the easiest example to demonstrate this. 


Of greater concern to me is the impact of what seems to be a regional entrenchment episode that is active at present (channelling my latent fluvial geomorphology training).  It is currently a very unstable environment.  The primary wash that drains the property is being downcut. Damage to the bridges and low water crossings in this wash are evident throughout.  This regional entrenchment is also being translated to the tributary drainages on the site and resulting in headcuts that are eroding up into multiple fairways and disrupting the irrigation system and other infrastructure.  Significant effort to stabilize the situation is required.....and now!


My experience leaves me of two minds:  (1)  The condition of the course is not such that a round conducted in reasonable conformance to the Rules of Golf is possible, so recommending a trip solely for that purpose is likely to result in disappointment.  (2) There is still much to study and learn architecturally - and it is a very cool setting.  If you seek such knowledge and experiences, I recommend getting there ASAP, as I have some concerns that it will not survive the wet winter that is currently predicted.  It was a bit of a heavy hearted round, but still a cool experience for a couple of GCA nerds.  The staff could not have been friendlier. 


 

[Ross Harmon]

Mike - thanks for the additional details on Apache Stronghold. I played it yesterday solo and observed the same. Fortunately, my play found only the playable bunkers and sides of the putting surfaces, but there are certainly many parts of the course in dire need of care. Other than the bridges/ washes, the areas in need of attention - tee boxes, bunkers, greens - don't seen *that* difficult to address.


You're right though - the staff couldn't have been nicer, the views couldn't be better and the value for the dollar of great golf architecture is second to none.


One thing to note is that they have recently flipped the 9s. I did not inquire as to why, but it's nice now to finish with the Apache statue in the background instead of the temporary carnival they have now setup behind #9 (previously #18).


With maybe 20 golfers there yesterday the weekend of the rodeo and Big & Rich concert, I also have to wonder about the financial sustainability of this course though.

[Pete_Pittock]

What is the best way to arrange play if you are a solo golfer?. Are stay and play packages more reasonable than rack rates/booking services and cheap motels?.    I have some time between closing out a rules workshop in Vegas on 2/19 and starting a tour from Tucson on 2/15.  Tentative is Wickenburg, Duke, Southern Dunes, then switching base to We-Ko-Pa.

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