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Frank Kim

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Which Golden Age Architect's Courses were changed the most?
« on: October 22, 2015, 11:02:32 AM »
I once asked someone what he thought of courses designed by Donald Ross and his response was how do we know since they were often altered.  What golden age architect's courses were changed the most and is there a reason.

Rees Milikin

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Re: Which Golden Age Architect's Courses were changed the most?
« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2015, 11:11:09 AM »
Possibly MacRayBanks because people didn't get it and because most of the courses were very well off clubs, thus they had the money to alter what was originally built.

Matt Frey, PGA

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Re: Which Golden Age Architect's Courses were changed the most?
« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2015, 11:25:52 AM »
I would tend to agree with Rees. In my experience, many MacRayBanks course were altered to either make them easier or to "modernize" them (see von Hagge's work at Camargo).


That being said, I'm sure most Golden Age designs have been monkeyed with to some extent given the time that has passed and people's desire to put their own marks on courses.

Brad Tufts

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Re: Which Golden Age Architect's Courses were changed the most?
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2015, 12:03:07 PM »
Might be pre-Golden Age, but how about Bendelow?


Many of his layouts were on the bare-bones side of things, ripe for redesigns, renovations, improvements, etc.


Not sure if any/many pure Tom Bendelow courses still exist...
So I jump ship in Hong Kong....

Tim_Cronin

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Re: Which Golden Age Architect's Courses were changed the most?
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2015, 05:04:50 PM »
Definitely Bendelow. Many of them were just wiped out by the next archie to come along. Medinah No. 2 – currently being renovated, but gently, we are told – might be the last best example of 18 holes of Bendelow.
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Benjamin Litman

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Re: Which Golden Age Architect's Courses were changed the most?
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2015, 05:10:08 PM »
Tweaks to a few holes aside, Quogue Field Club remains--in length, routing, molding, and design features--very much as it was when Bendelow designed his 1901 nine-hole course.
"One will perform in large part according to the circumstances."
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Tom_Doak

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Re: Which Golden Age Architect's Courses were changed the most?
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2015, 07:12:33 PM »
Raynor and Banks courses are difficult to change ... Mr. von Hagge had to bring in a lot of fill at Camargo to mess it up.


I'd agree that a lot of Bendelow's early work was changed completely in later years, because it was built on a shoestring, and not really meant to last.



Off the top of my head, I would say that the two architects whose work has suffered most were Bill Langford and Max Behr.  Langford's work was too severe for a lot of his clients, and it was also built very wide, so a lot of his courses like Wakonda and Kankakee Elks have been mangled by tree planting out in the lines of play.  Behr's work was very subtle and a lot of it was ruined by adding extraneous features and losing big areas of short grass that provided options.


Ross's courses are generally well preserved by comparison.  Yes, there has been a lot of restoration of them in recent years, but most of it has just been fixing bunkers and mowing out greens ... the bones of the courses have been the same all the way through.  I'd say the same for Tillinghast and MacKenzie and Macdonald and Flynn.