Is Amateur golf still like Polo?

[Mike_Young]

For years amateur golf was like polo..a game for men of leisure and means.   After reading the article this morning where the US Mid Am Champion's wife was soliciting funds on Gofundme to allow her husband to practice in warm weather etc to prepare for the Masters it made me realize that it still is once you reach the Mid Am level.  The guys playing most of the amateur golf are either funded, have jobs where their golf helps sell a poilcy or another product or have family money.  It's not that they are necessarily the best amateur golfers.  I don't see it changing....AND I hope the US MidAm champ gets his funding.   

[Tom_Doak]

Is that kosher with the rules of amateur status?


Eddie Lowery would just have had to channel his money through a web site?


P.S.  From what I saw of polo in Argentina, your characterization is slightly off.  There is a whole bunch of money going into polo now; the amateurs are mostly window dressing to support the pros.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Tom,


Yes, it's kosher: under USGA rules the funds will go to Schmitz's state golf association, who will then reimburse him.

[Mark Pavy]

They should just get rid of amateur and professional categories and merge the governing bodies.

[Rich Goodale]

They should just get rid of amateur and professional categories and merge the governing bodies.

Fully agree.

[Mike_Young]

Is that kosher with the rules of amateur status?


Eddie Lowery would just have had to channel his money through a web site?


P.S.  From what I saw of polo in Argentina, your characterization is slightly off.  There is a whole bunch of money going into polo now; the amateurs are mostly window dressing to support the pros.

TD,
I think the money has to be channeled thru the Wisconsin Golf Assoc.    Also, am sure Polo is changing which just leave Jamaican bobsledding and Ultimate Frisbee...

[Paul Gray]

They should just get rid of amateur and professional categories and merge the governing bodies.

Fully agree.

Absolutely. The current scenario is just a means to prohibit the poor kids from winning a second tier title. Make The Walker Cup an under 18's event and be done with it. If you can play, you can get paid.

[Jon Wiggett]

They should just get rid of amateur and professional categories and merge the governing bodies.

Fully agree.

Absolutely. The current scenario is just a means to prohibit the poor kids from winning a second tier title. Make The Walker Cup an under 18's event and be done with it. If you can play, you can get paid.

But it still wouldn't allow the poor kids to win a second tier title if they cannot do so now. I do agree the amateur status rules are very questionable though. Would not the walker cup be better made up from a cross-section of age groups?

Jon

[Thomas Dai]

They should just get rid of amateur and professional categories and merge the governing bodies.

Agree.


As to other team matches, I believe there is already an equivalent match for Age-18 and under and also for College/University students. I think the 18 & Under teams include both lads and lasses. Not sure of the events names and whether or not they are just GB&I or include players from all of Europe. Are there Mid-Am or Seniors equivalents already?


atb

[Pete Lavallee]

As usual Mike you have touched a nerve, you would have made a great dental interrogator for the Germans. When you boil it right down it seems the Amateur rules are still in place so Sir Percy doesn't have to take time off from fox hunting and shooting to stay competitive with those wretched artisans.

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

They should just get rid of amateur and professional categories and merge the governing bodies.

Totally disagree that is what makes the game still survive for people like me who want to compete against the best non paid players.
I dont agree that the best amateurs arent the winners, that is not true.
I agree we have to support ourselves in terms of expenses but the best players still make it to the biggest events.
It is a lopsided playing filed in terms of number of events one can play ?  well sure.
As a pediatric dentist if I am not at work there is no money coming in versus perhaps a money manager guy or someone who owns a business where hie prescence is non vital all the time.
But we pick our events to play and tee it up with a chance of competing.
Throw out the pro/amateur divide and hen we try to compete with people who play golf all day.......how can that be good for the game?


As for the soliciting of monies f to practice in the warm weather for the winter, that is a stretch in my mind as to what amatuer golf is all about, that kind of "reward" should be done in private.
I am sure there is a benefactor out there with USGA ties who would be willing and able to provide a winter place to practice for the deserved Mid Am winner

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

They should just get rid of amateur and professional categories and merge the governing bodies.

Fully agree.

Absolutely. The current scenario is just a means to prohibit the poor kids from winning a second tier title. Make The Walker Cup an under 18's event and be done with it. If you can play, you can get paid.

It is already basically a college team...and is many ways are they not already getting paid or at least reimbursed for their abililies
Free clubs and other equipment, playing all year in events, supported by State golf assocaiations to compete in the top events, lets not cross the line and make actual payment.
A thin line of difference but still a line.

[JESII]

Both sides of this interest me.


More than anything else, I think it's a shame that the current US Mid Am champion feels compelled to put the rest of his life on hold for several months in hopes of playing well (whatever that means) in the Masters.


Winning the Mid Am and gaining an invitation to the Masters should be the dream!

[Mike_Young]

They should just get rid of amateur and professional categories and merge the governing bodies.

Totally disagree that is what makes the game still survive for people like me who want to compete against the best non paid players.
I dont agree that the best amateurs arent the winners, that is not true.

Michael,
With respect, that is my point.  You are not necessarily competing against the best non paid players.  You are competing against the best who can afford to come play the tourney.  I see this often in Senior golf tourneys.  You have a guy who practices for hours and still can't beat a guy who plays twice a week yet he doesn't have the job or the time to go compete.  It's like getting stuck in Class C baseball...

[Buck Wolter]

Both sides of this interest me.


More than anything else, I think it's a shame that the current US Mid Am champion feels compelled to put the rest of his life on hold for several months in hopes of playing well (whatever that means) in the Masters.


Winning the Mid Am and gaining an invitation to the Masters should be the dream!

Jim have you ever been to Minnesota in the Winter? If he doesn't have the means to do a Florida trip (and perhaps a few rounds at Augusta) he is going to get to The Masters after at best hitting balls in a dome somewhere for the last 6 months and likely make a fool of himself. While he lives in Wisconsin he lists Farmington as his home which is about 10 miles from mine --I plan to donate to this guys Tin Cup dream. His Wife had to take time off from work and catch a last minute flight to Atlanta and drive all night just to see him win. This is a story to be celebrated me thinks.

[BHoover]

Winning the Mid Am was a great story, and I realize there are arguments on both sides, but I don't like the look of asking for donations to fund practice over the winter. It just seems wrong to ask publicly for donations for this. I'm not saying that only the well-to-do should have these opportunities, but it takes some nerve I don't have to ask for money for something like this.

What would the reaction be if I started a crowdsourcing account to raise money for my "dream" golf trip? Something tells me most of you wouldn't be in favor of that. Fundamentally, that's what this request is (I just checked and the total is $25K, and they have stopped accepting donations).

[Niall C]

They should just get rid of amateur and professional categories and merge the governing bodies.

Fully agree.

Absolutely. The current scenario is just a means to prohibit the poor kids from winning a second tier title. Make The Walker Cup an under 18's event and be done with it. If you can play, you can get paid.

Bollocks to the poor kids, what about us poor hackers trying to win the saturday medal and some bloody semi-pro who has been clogging up the course all week walks of with the trophy.


Niall

[JESII]

Buck,


Is that really it? Is he simply hoping to not embarrass himself?


He's the US Mid Amateur Champion and playing in the Masters. All embarrassment should be behind him.


I don't fault anyone for contributing to him. I hate that he feels he needs to go through these hoops simply to perform well there...whatever that means.

[PCCraig]

It's a nice story that Sammy Schmitz from Minnesota won the Mid-Am, given that he plays out of a public course, hits balls at a dome in the winter, has a family, doesn't sell insurance policies, etc.


That being said, the online fund his wife set up is a complete joke. Clearly the guy already spends a considerable amount of time and money on his golf game already...it would be impossible to win the Mid-Am otherwise. He's 35 and has a full-time job, and yet he feels compelled to ask for $30thd so he can "prepare" for the Masters and he can bring his whole family down there in a rental house for the week. Give me a break.


If he wants to get in practice over the winter, he could fly down to Atlanta/Augusta nearly every weekend this winter, play and practice for free, stay in a nearby motel for $50/night, and come nowhere near spending $30thd.


Clearly, he has zero chance of making the cut regardless of how much he practices this winter. He should just have the attitude that he's going to show up to the Masters, stay in the Crow's Nest, enjoy a bunch of practice rounds with his idols, two tournament rounds, and the ability to watch the final two rounds on the weekend as a spectator -- for free! That's the best deal in the universe.


I find it unseemly that the guy feels that he can ask for $30thd so he can fly all his buddies down and bunk them in a rental house for the week. Not to mention, if he really thinks it's going to cost him $30thd...he doesn't have $30thd saved up? Isn't he 35?


What's next? Is he going to crowdfund his expenses to play on the Walker Cup team in two years?

[JMEvensky]

He's the US Mid Amateur Champion and playing in the Masters. All embarrassment should be behind him.

Agreed. He's already won his Masters--he got an invitation.What would he be embarrassed about?

[Wayne_Kozun]

They should just get rid of amateur and professional categories and merge the governing bodies.

I agree.  The concept of Amateur that they are still trying to impose in golf is a 19th century anachronism.  The Olympics finally realized this, it is time golf did as well. 


But the NCAA seems to be one of the institutions trying to retain these distinctions - like if you play junior hockey and earn a pittance you become disqualified to play NCAA hockey.

[John Kavanaugh]

It's an invite to play in the Masters.  I don't believe it is legally binding.  I hope they pull it for this embarrassing development.  No different than they pull the invite if you turn pro before the tournament.

[BCowan]

It's an invite to play in the Masters.  I don't believe it is legally binding.  I hope they pull it for this embarrassing development.  No different than they pull the invite if you turn pro before the tournament.

+1

[Ryan Hillenbrand]

It's a nice story that Sammy Schmitz from Minnesota won the Mid-Am, given that he plays out of a public course, hits balls at a dome in the winter, has a family, doesn't sell insurance policies, etc.


That being said, the online fund his wife set up is a complete joke. Clearly the guy already spends a considerable amount of time and money on his golf game already...it would be impossible to win the Mid-Am otherwise. He's 35 and has a full-time job, and yet he feels compelled to ask for $30thd so he can "prepare" for the Masters and he can bring his whole family down there in a rental house for the week. Give me a break.


If he wants to get in practice over the winter, he could fly down to Atlanta/Augusta nearly every weekend this winter, play and practice for free, stay in a nearby motel for $50/night, and come nowhere near spending $30thd.


Clearly, he has zero chance of making the cut regardless of how much he practices this winter. He should just have the attitude that he's going to show up to the Masters, stay in the Crow's Nest, enjoy a bunch of practice rounds with his idols, two tournament rounds, and the ability to watch the final two rounds on the weekend as a spectator -- for free! That's the best deal in the universe.


I find it unseemly that the guy feels that he can ask for $30thd so he can fly all his buddies down and bunk them in a rental house for the week. Not to mention, if he really thinks it's going to cost him $30thd...he doesn't have $30thd saved up? Isn't he 35?


What's next? Is he going to crowdfund his expenses to play on the Walker Cup team in two years?

Thank you. This GoFundMe thing is out of control, now its anybody who wants something for free. I can think of far more deserving cases then helping a guy travel back and forth to Augusta National b/c he gets unlimited practice rounds.

I once caddied in a U.S. Mid Am and the most common occupations were business owner, financial advisor, teacher and firefighter. Seemed the common currency was free time, and not income, that made for a top mid am.

[Buck Wolter]

So the answer to the original question is yes -- you better be rich or have a sugar-daddy paying for your golf or you will be seen as unseemly by those in the know.