"Bandon is a toy by comparison." To his courses per Donald J. Trump

[Pete Lavallee]

On the plus side Dick, he gives "them" a place to play, so "we" can enjoy the classics uncrowded!

[Martin Lehmann]

Adam, Jon,


Trump International Links has been discussed extensively on this website, so I don't think we should do it all over. Indeed, time will tell if the course is just good, very good or fantastic. And obviously, taste and personal preferences play an important role too. I have played Trump Links twice and was overwhelmed both times. What I liked most, is that Martin Hawtree and Caspar Grauballe didn't go for a jaw-dropping showcase (which is quite easy at a site of that quality and magnitude), but stayed true to the principles of links golf. I like the somewhat understated and elegant style they applied. And I agree that there are questionable tee positions and that the course probably needs some fine-tuning here and there (which new course doesn't). But I'm pretty sure that the final judgement will go towards 'fantastic'.

[Jamie Pyper]

I played Trump Scotland last summer. Thought much of the primary dune ridge were so large they actually interfered with holes getting close to and or views of the sea. After my round, nothing says " pure links" in the historic birthplace and cradle of the game more than the sole photograph behind the bar of Mr Trump with Michael Jackson taken on his private jet.  Class....Real Class!   

[Paul Gray]

......I like the somewhat understated and elegant style they applied.....I'm pretty sure that the final judgement will go towards 'fantastic'

If that's an understated links, I shudder to think what comedy fairway patterns we'd see from an overstated links!

Are Murcar, Cruden and Royal Aberdeen fantastic? Many here have ranked all three Aberdeenshire courses above Balmedie so fantastic might be a bit optimistic. Then again he might sell it and allow focus to shift to architecture instead of views!

[Niall C]

I suspect that the Donald himself would shudder at the description of his best course in the world being called understated. It's certainly not that I would have thought. It's also certainly not rubbish either with a lot of really good stuff going on, particularly the internal green contours. I agree with Adam that in time it will mature into a very fine course. How fine time will tell.


Niall

[Adam Lawrence]

See, here's my question about Trump. If it's supposed to be the best course in the world, it must logically have some of the best holes in the world. Which holes there do people think are genuinely all-world? I don't personally see many.

[PCCraig]

I think Trump - Biden would be the best golf match... didn't know he was a 6 handicap!

http://www.golfdigest.com/story/joe-biden-single-digit-handicap-said-to-be-on-brink-of-joining-presidential-race

I played in the group in front of Biden at the River Course on Kiawah Island last year. He seemed to be a nice guy and seemed very much in "vacation mode." From what I saw of his golf swing/game, it looked better than I expected but I wouldn't of guessed he was a 6...perhaps a 10-15?

[Tom_Doak]

“You know, everyone crows about Bandon Dunes,”Trump told Links magazine a few years ago when he was building Trump International Golf Links near Aberdeen, Scotland. “I’ve been to Bandon Dunes. The views there are no better than what we have, and the dunes themselves are like little toys compared to our dunes.” According to Golf Digest contributor David Owen, Trump trotted out the same slight in an interview, saying, “The biggest dune [at Bandon Dunes] is like one-tenth the size of our smallest dune. It’s a toy.”


The above is the quote in question so Trump has been to Bandon.

Niall:


Just because he said he was there, doesn't mean he has ever really been there.  I sure haven't heard of Mr. Trump making a visit to Bandon; and in my two [brief] conversations with him, though he praised my work generally, he never mentioned having seen either of my courses there.


Doesn't really matter though ... nothing would change his opinion that anything he's done is the best, and nothing else compares.

[Kalen Braley]

The "sad but true" part of Donalds statement is the average joe doesn't know enough about golf course architecture to know he's entirely full of crap and probably believes him on his tweet.
 
Hell, the fact that he's STILL leading in the polls says enough as is about the amount of gullible/suckers out there.

[Martin Lehmann]

See, here's my question about Trump. If it's supposed to be the best course in the world, it must logically have some of the best holes in the world. Which holes there do people think are genuinely all-world? I don't personally see many.

The Donald's claim of Trump Links being the greatest course in the world is ludicrous, no question about it. But there are a bunch of terrific holes. All par 3s are excellent in my view. The 14th is stunning. And the holes I like most are the traditional, slightly doglegged par 4s: the 2nd, 8th, 12th and 17th. Maybe not spectacular, but well balanced, strategic golf holes from tee to green. A joy to play!

[Adam Lawrence]

See, I think the 14th is a dumb blonde. Spectacular view for sure, but there's nothing but the view to the golf hole. Biff it down the fairway and onto the green. Miss the fairway, probably lose your ball. Certainly no strategy.

[Terry Lavin]

Hell, the fact that he's STILL leading in the polls says enough as is about the amount of gullible/suckers out there.

When you have a political party that doesn't believe in science, this is what you get.  A hot air machine.  I hope he wins the nomination.

[Niall C]

Tom


Fair point but I wonder if even he would have the brass neck to make that kind of statement ie.stating something as fact, knowing it was false. After all, saying your course is the best in the world is a matter of opinion rather than fact.


Niall

[Kalen Braley]

Tom


Fair point but I wonder if even he would have the brass neck to make that kind of statement ie.stating something as fact, knowing it was false. After all, saying your course is the best in the world is a matter of opinion rather than fact.


Niall

Niall,
 
I think the Donald truly believes his bs bravado.  He's been doing it so long now, I don't think he can differentiate between fact and fiction any longer.
 
And its not just his courses he says this about. He says this about all of his product lines....

[Peter Pallotta]

Actually, all things considered I think Mr T is very good for golf. Goodness know the game doesn't need another doomsayer or another stuffed shirt with perfectly modest views and polite dinner manners, nor does it need any more mumbling nerds throwing darts from the sidelines. Yes, he's a bombastic and over the top and gleeful self promotor, but he's talking about golf courses and referencing architecture -- and so, much like Mr Nicklaus did with architects' salaries, the tidal wave that is Mr T 'raises everyone's boat'.
Peter

[Niall C]

Kalen


Comparing dune sizes and relative views is trite, however I was commenting on his statement that he had actually been to Bandon. That surely is something that he could readily be shot sown on if it weren't true, no ? I mean we can all laugh at his claims for his office developments/housing developments/casinos/golf courses etc being the best in the world (and to an extent he's probably laughing along with us) but that is just a matter of opinion used as marketing hype. 


Telling an out and out porky is something different, or at least I think so. Is this something he is prone to do ?


Niall

[Kalen Braley]

Kalen


Comparing dune sizes and relative views is trite, however I was commenting on his statement that he had actually been to Bandon. That surely is something that he could readily be shot sown on if it weren't true, no ? I mean we can all laugh at his claims for his office developments/housing developments/casinos/golf courses etc being the best in the world (and to an extent he's probably laughing along with us) but that is just a matter of opinion used as marketing hype. 


Telling an out and out porky is something different, or at least I think so. Is this something he is prone to do ?


Niall

Niall,
 
I'm assuming you don't live in the US....cause if you were here, you would hear the "porkies" that comes out of his pie hole just about every day!!  And they are far worse than golf course architecture.
 
He has disparaged women, minority groups, and just about everyone else who hasn't jumped on the Trump bandwagon..
 
This golf course stuff is tame compared to his normal vitriol ...

[Niall C]

Kalen


We get quite a lot of coverage of the US presidential election over here in the UK and I've heard quite a lot of his derogatory remarks about women/mexicans etc however he is largely expressing an opinion however abhorent it may be to you, me or anyone else. Unfortunately what he says seems to have some sort of currency with some part of the general population. However what I was referring to was him stating something as fact which could otherwise be proved as not true (if indeed that were the case) ie. he had been to Bandon. Does he normally make these kind of statements ?


Niall

[Stephen Davis]

Hell, the fact that he's STILL leading in the polls says enough as is about the amount of gullible/suckers out there.

When you have a political party that doesn't believe in science, this is what you get.  A hot air machine.  I hope he wins the nomination.

How is this allowed on this site? There certainly must not be any moderation going on here. I would think that someone reported as intelligent as a judge would know more than to make such absurd statements. It would be appreciated if you would stay on topic.


-signed Not a Trump Supporter

[Kalen Braley]

Kalen


We get quite a lot of coverage of the US presidential election over here in the UK and I've heard quite a lot of his derogatory remarks about women/mexicans etc however he is largely expressing an opinion however abhorent it may be to you, me or anyone else. Unfortunately what he says seems to have some sort of currency with some part of the general population. However what I was referring to was him stating something as fact which could otherwise be proved as not true (if indeed that were the case) ie. he had been to Bandon. Does he normally make these kind of statements ?


Niall

That's a good question Niall,
 
I suppose most of the time he really is just expressing an opinion when you put it like that.  I suspect this golf one will stay under the radar because its about golf, which no one really cares about on the national level during election time.  The ones that generate the outrage are the typical hot buttons like race, sex, economy, etc.  So it looks like he will get away with this fibber, only because the media will not be inclined to make a big deal out of it.  I also suspect if his past was scrutinized it would be full of small fibs like this that would never make the headlines...

[William_G]

Hell, the fact that he's STILL leading in the polls says enough as is about the amount of gullible/suckers out there.

When you have a political party that doesn't believe in science, this is what you get.  A hot air machine.  I hope he wins the nomination.

How is this allowed on this site? There certainly must not be any moderation going on here. I would think that someone reported as intelligent as a judge would know more than to make such absurd statements. It would be appreciated if you would stay on topic.


-signed Not a Trump Supporter

I think the point is that many humans can believe anything regardless of facts and opinions are not facts

the Donald's opinion about Bandon and his golf courses are just that, opinions

 

[Jon Wiggett]

Adam, Jon,


Trump International Links has been discussed extensively on this website, so I don't think we should do it all over. Indeed, time will tell if the course is just good, very good or fantastic. And obviously, taste and personal preferences play an important role too. I have played Trump Links twice and was overwhelmed both times. What I liked most, is that Martin Hawtree and Caspar Grauballe didn't go for a jaw-dropping showcase (which is quite easy at a site of that quality and magnitude), but stayed true to the principles of links golf. I like the somewhat understated and elegant style they applied. And I agree that there are questionable tee positions and that the course probably needs some fine-tuning here and there (which new course doesn't). But I'm pretty sure that the final judgement will go towards 'fantastic'.

Martin,

as this is a topic comparing Trump's courses to Bandon then why should a Trump course not be discussed? You are correct that it is all about personal preference but my comments are not about surroundings which are quite awe inspiring but rather about the golf course itself which is probably at the least a missed opportunity. It has far to many holes where the green is ramped up which do not encourage the run up shots and even less feed ins to the greens. The course is poorly tied into the surrounds and it is desperately over bunkered. Whilst it does have great internal contours on the greens which alone make it worth a look it has not this quality through out the course which is a shame.

Whilst I have never seen Bandon so cannot make a comparison I can think of a couple of dozen courses I would put ahead of it from a GCA point of view and very few that would be behind it from a 'value for money' angle.

I do wonder how you can be overwhelmed by something that is understated?

However this does not mean the course is poor but just what my opinion of it is in relation to its claim on being the greatest course in the world which it plainly is not.

Jon

[Ian Mackenzie]

As stated by each guy:


1. Trump wants to appeal to the "high-end golfer". The 1%+ crowd. Hence, as an example, Turnberry is $550/nt. minimum for a room and a round on the Ailsa course is $300. Trump Aberdeen is $325 for a round.


2. Keiser wants to appeal to the "retail golfer". (Still probably the 5% crowd. Hence, as an example, Cabot Links is $150.night and a round on one of the courses is ~$125.


- Streamsong is ~$200/nt. for lodging and $150 per round for golf in mid-season (winter).
- Bandon is comparable depending upon your lodging choice. (It can be less.)


If economic headwinds return, then Trump may get his face ripped off as his model will disintegrate with his client's disposable income. Keiser may take a hit, but - at his price points - his courses will have a broader appeal.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Ian,


And Ron jaworski does it for the "regulars"...


http://www.si.com/nfl/2015/09/22/nfl-qb-ron-jaworski-golf-courses-nj

[Tom_Doak]

If economic headwinds return, then Trump may get his face ripped off as his model will disintegrate with his client's disposable income. Keiser may take a hit, but - at his price points - his courses will have a broader appeal.

You really think that if economic headwinds return, the 5% will be less affected than the 1% ?