America's First 8,000 yard golf course?

[James Brown]

Let's do a thought experiment.   let's play a PGA tour field event at 8,000 actual yards and see what happens.  Would be interesting to see what people think.   7300 ish with a few tees up.  I really wanna see scores at 8,000 yards.  Doesn't really matter how firm it is at that length, I don't think. 



4 par threes averaging 225
10 par fours averaging 470
4 par fives averaging 600


This totals 8000 yards.


30 yard fairways.  4 inch rough.  Greens at 12.   Similar green complex difficulty to a high quality tour course like Muirfield Village or Sawgrass. 


What would the scoring average and winning score be?

[Phil Lipper]

Two of the RTJ trail golf courses Ross Bridges and Shoals are both over 8,000 yards. Actually one of them is close to 8,200 yards.

[Matt Glore]

One thing that bothers me about many people with a voice today is that in my youth when I could hit the bar long and far I do not recall a single gentleman who wished I was playing the same up tee as he. It seemed as though those who came before me admired the bigger homes, cars and breasts so enjoyed by the youth of the day. What happened where we now want our children to no longer be the best, for every child to be equal, for the grass to not only be greener on the other side of the fence but just greener damn the cost. I hope my children play 9,000 yard courses while living in 9,000 square foot homes while getting 9 miles to the gallon. That and 9% cheap beer sounds like a sweet future.

AGREED!

[Jim_Coleman]

    Mike Trenham suggests that if Justice's course plays mostly downhill, it won't be a tough walk green to tee.  I think Mike's got it backwards. Jack said there will be only 5 uphill shots.  Assuming the course begins and ends in the same place (and I know of no course that doesn't), the walks from greens to tees must be brutally uphill, and brutally long.  How else can you return to where you started with a 2,000' elevation change and only 5 uphill shots?

[Adam Lawrence]

    Mike Trenham suggests that if Justice's course plays mostly downhill, it won't be a tough walk green to tee.  I think Mike's got it backwards. Jack said there will be only 5 uphill shots.  Assuming the course begins and ends in the same place (and I know of no course that doesn't), the walks from greens to tees must be brutally uphill, and brutally long.  How else can you return to where you started with a 2,000' elevation change and only 5 uphill shots?

I wouldn't hold out much hope of it being a walking course

[Jim_Coleman]

   Justice's marching orders are to build him a course to host the U.S. Open.  The Donald Trump of W.V.?

[Howard Riefs]

Golf Advisor has an recent article on 8,000+ yard courses: http://www.golfadvisor.com/articles/10-longest-golf-courses-15488.htm


Some have already been mentioned...


International Golf Club - Pines Course, Bolton, Mass.
8,325 yards, par 73

Robert Trent Jones Golf Trail at Ross Bridge, Hoover, Ala.
8,191 yards, par 72

Antler Creek Golf Course, Peyton, Colo.
8,114 yards, par 72

French Lick Resort, Dye Course, French Lick, Ind.
8,102 yards, par 72
 
Promontory Club, Painted Valley, Park City, Utah
8,098 yards, par 72
 
Shoals Golf Club, Fighting Joe, Muscle Shoals, Ala.
8,092 yards, par 72
 
Prairie Club, Dunes Course, Valentine, Neb.
8,058 yards, par 72

[Steve Green]

I thought that Erin Hills has a set of tees over 8000 yards and that the owner wanted to have the first
  U.S. Open at that distance.

The black tees are 7,812 on the card but I believe that doesn't include some further tees that push it past 8,000.

http://www.erinhills.com/erin_hills_golf_score_card_2.aspx

At one point in time they had a set of tees called the back black which took the course over 8,000.  8,400 when they had 19 holes in play. 

[BCrosby]

What is outrageous about 8k+ yard golf courses is not that they are 8K+ yards; it's that for pros and top tier college players such courses are not 'long' in any relevant historical sense.


The real outrage is balls and equipment. As long as nothing is done about them, 9K courses are just around the corner.


Bob 



 

[BCowan]

One thing that bothers me about many people with a voice today is that in my youth when I could hit the bar long and far I do not recall a single gentleman who wished I was playing the same up tee as he. It seemed as though those who came before me admired the bigger homes, cars and breasts so enjoyed by the youth of the day. What happened where we now want our children to no longer be the best, for every child to be equal, for the grass to not only be greener on the other side of the fence but just greener damn the cost. I hope my children play 9,000 yard courses while living in 9,000 square foot homes while getting 9 miles to the gallon. That and 9% cheap beer sounds like a sweet future.

This is great.  With all the chatter of short courses, I hope to play a 9,000 yard course in my lifetime.   

[Andrew Carr]

    Mike Trenham suggests that if Justice's course plays mostly downhill, it won't be a tough walk green to tee.  I think Mike's got it backwards. Jack said there will be only 5 uphill shots.  Assuming the course begins and ends in the same place (and I know of no course that doesn't), the walks from greens to tees must be brutally uphill, and brutally long.  How else can you return to where you started with a 2,000' elevation change and only 5 uphill shots?

This assumes people will walk this course.  Sounds like gas cartgolf to me...

[jeffwarne]

    Mike Trenham suggests that if Justice's course plays mostly downhill, it won't be a tough walk green to tee.  I think Mike's got it backwards. Jack said there will be only 5 uphill shots.

Any course I've ever played where you predominantly played downhill........you walked UPHILL to get the next
view(errr..tee)

[Thomas Dai]

18-holes over 8,000 yds, what a distinctly unpleasant thought.
Atb

[BCowan]

Hitting 150 yard drives is an unpleasant thought to me. 

[Joe Lane]

Hi Mr. Kavanaugh and others,


The problems with 8000 yard courses:


1. In the West, where water is at a premium, this is a political no go, and really risks what little good will the general public already has towards the game for absolutely no reason at all.


2. Same applies, less drastically, to other parts of the country and to the world.


3. Exacerbates exactly the same tendencies in design that most people (I think) on this site are against: length for the sake of length, focus on the low-handicap player rather than the average, and finally—most importantly—increases in the time per round. These are all tendencies contrary to the continued existence of the game.


Does that about sum it up?


Joe

[BCowan]

Joe,

1.  I don't play golf west of St Louis.  2ndly the Golf courses out in Arizona I believe can only manage X amount of turf.  They are in a Desert.  The back tee can be an island and one can still play hole w putter.

2. Water is an issue in 4 or 5 states.  I hope Michigan gets the first 9,000 yard course for we have abundant of water and sand!  You are also presuming that we are for irrigated fairways.  Don't assume. 

3. I'm against Group Think and Authoritarian ideology.  You are presuming that the 9,000 yard course will lack Strategic, Heroic, and a little Penal Architecture,  Don't presume.  Only .5-2% would probably play from back there, this ideology that long courses take longer is hogwash.  I play a 7,000 yard course in 3 hours all the time.  I've played 5 hr rounds on 5900 yard courses. ''These are all tendencies contrary to the continued existence of the game''- That is your (Groups) opinion on here.  The course is fine, its the other nonsense that is bringing it down. 

Did I enlighten you? 

[Joe Lane]

Hi Ben,


How can something be “your opinion” and “groupthink” at the same time?


Let me know when you can explain it.


 


Joe

[BCowan]

Mr Lane,

   Real simple, ''Your opinion'' is in line with ''Group think''

[Tom_Doak]

2. Water is an issue in 4 or 5 states.  I hope Michigan gets the first 9,000 yard course for we have abundant of water and sand!  You are also presuming that we are for irrigated fairways.  Don't assume. 

Did I enlighten you?

Ben:


No, you didn't.  Water use on golf courses is an issue in about 25-30 states today.  It's an issue in Minnesota!  Give it another 5-10 years and it will be an issue in all 50 states. 


If you don't irrigate your fairways, your 9000-yard course will be just fine ... although the firm fairways will make it play considerably shorter.

[Joe Lane]

Hi Ben,


Your hilariously bad attempt at humor—I’d suggest that you stick with the “pull my finger” variety with which you are so obviously familiar—is also a logical failure. You’re trying to impugn my opinion on the implicit premise that it is invalid because it is not shared with anyone else—“your opinion”—but also that it is shared by everyone else—“groupthink.” What you’re saying, in other words, is kind of like politely telling you to perform an anatomical impossibility.


But doing that would be kind of rude, and not really that funny.


 


Joe   

[BCowan]

2. Water is an issue in 4 or 5 states.  I hope Michigan gets the first 9,000 yard course for we have abundant of water and sand!  You are also presuming that we are for irrigated fairways.  Don't assume. 

Did I enlighten you?

Ben:


No, you didn't.  Water use on golf courses is an issue in about 25-30 states today.  It's an issue in Minnesota!  Give it another 5-10 years and it will be an issue in all 50 states. 


If you don't irrigate your fairways, your 9000-yard course will be just fine ... although the firm fairways will make it play considerably shorter.

Tom,

I got the 4-5 states from a friend in the golf industry.   Minnesota doesn't make sense they have 10,000 lakes? 

Yes, non irrigated fairways  will play shorter. That was something I assumed people would get on here, not to judge by numbers but how something play w regards to elevation. Why Dr Mack courses play longer then scorecard I've found.

[Pete_Pittock]

I like to play a course around 6000 yards. Can I get a 25% discount on my greens fee?

[BCowan]

Pete,

  Why of course.  Craft beer is 9% off too, the good stuff.  Joe and Tom can join us.

Joe,

I'm joking with you.  I'm an amatuer.

[Doug Siebert]

International Golf Club - Pines Course, Bolton, Mass.
8,325 yards, par 73

It is a bit stunning to me that this is still the longest course and it is almost 50 years old. Granted the 8000 yard tees were more of a joke when it was built, but still. How long would a course have to be now to provide a similar challenge (similar clubs into the green) in 2016 than this did in 1969? Maybe 9500 yards?

[Tim Gavrich]

The notion that 9,000-yard (heck, even 8,000-yard) courses are realistic as near-future venues for professional golf is absurd, unless there is a staggering jump in average driving distances, which have been fairly flat for about a decade now. Actual data seems to point to a conclusion that players are hitting their clubs about as far as they're capable of. I guess all bets are off if the USGA lifts the ban on Iron Man super-suits and rocket-propelled ProV1s...


Until then, all talk about runaway course yardages will mysteriously die down when the Tour goes through Harbor Town and Hartford.


The gaudy total back tee yardage number is mainly a marketing strategy, and Jim Justice has succeeded, based on the way this thread has gone so far. But secondarily, if/when the course does host a championship, those in charge of setup will be able to have different holes play at different yardages on different days. I thought that was the cool thing these days, no?


But anyway, the best thing about that article: the photo of the ceremonial groundbreaking. Look at the massive piles of dirt on Palmer, Player and Nicklaus' shovels! They're still competing with each other to this day. Amazing, telling shot.