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Frank Giordano

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America's First 8,000 yard golf course?
« on: October 16, 2015, 08:59:31 PM »
Jim Justice, owner of The Greenbrier, has brought Jack Nicklaus, Arnold Palmer, Gary Player, and Lee Trevino together, to design his new mountaintop championship course at the West Virginia resort.  It's over 8000 yards!  We all knew an 8,000 yarder was coming, and we can't be surprised at who's designing it.  But ... why?  And where will the madness end?

see link: http://garyplayer.com/news/news_detail/jim_justice_brings_together_four_golf_legends_to_break_ground_on_new_course/
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Nigel Islam

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Re: America's First 8,000 yard golf course?
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2015, 09:08:13 PM »
The Pete Dye course in French Lick is over 8000 yards and I think The International Pines course in Massachusetts was the first one over 8000 as early as the late 60s.
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Greg Chambers

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Re: America's First 8,000 yard golf course?
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2015, 09:08:48 PM »
Antler Creek in Colorado is over 8100 yards, and it was built back in the late 90's.
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"It's good sportsmanship to not pick up lost golf balls while they are still rolling.”

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: America's First 8,000 yard golf course?
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2015, 09:37:36 PM »
Wasn't one of Gary Player's vocal criticisms of Chambers Bay that it was too long and that architects must stop building courses that are too difficult for average golfers ??
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David Kelly

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Re: America's First 8,000 yard golf course?
« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2015, 09:46:49 PM »
Quote from: Tom_Doak on October 16, 2015, 09:37:36 PM
Wasn't one of Gary Player's vocal criticisms of Chambers Bay that it was too long and that architects must stop building courses that are too difficult for average golfers ??


But then the check cleared.
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"Whatever in creation exists without my knowledge exists without my consent." - Judge Holden, Blood Meridian.

Nigel Islam

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: America's First 8,000 yard golf course?
« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2015, 10:04:07 PM »
Quote from: Tom_Doak on October 16, 2015, 09:37:36 PM
Wasn't one of Gary Player's vocal criticisms of Chambers Bay that it was too long and that architects must stop building courses that are too difficult for average golfers ??


And Chambers looks like it plays shorter than the yardage because of the firmness too!
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Steve_ Shaffer

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Re: America's First 8,000 yard golf course?
« Reply #6 on: October 16, 2015, 10:12:21 PM »
Lee Trevino on the new course at Greenbriar. Note the course will be on ridge of the mountain with many downhill shots and at 2000' elevation.


http://www.golfchannel.com/media/lee-trevino-i-am-learning-lot-these-guys/
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"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
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John Kavanaugh

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Re: America's First 8,000 yard golf course?
« Reply #7 on: October 16, 2015, 10:23:25 PM »
An 8,000 yd course can shorten half the holes on any given day by 100 yds each and be 7,100 yds. It is a tool for diversity. I love Pete Dye French Lick for this very reason. Every hole can be whatever it wants to be on any given day without the entire course being unplayable.
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Peter Pallotta

Re: America's First 8,000 yard golf course?
« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2015, 11:27:43 PM »
Quote from: John Kavanaugh on October 16, 2015, 10:23:25 PM
An 8,000 yd course can shorten half the holes on any given day by 100 yds each and be 7,100 yds. It is a tool for diversity. I love Pete Dye French Lick for this very reason. Every hole can be whatever it wants to be on any given day without the entire course being unplayable.

True enough, and a point worth remembering. But from a practical standpoint: will those who might vacation at the Greenbrier (the wealthy) and who might remember the Big Four (the old) and who would never consider playing except in a cart (the casual and/or feeble golfer) be the type of old,wealthy, casual golfers who would in any way be impressed (or even depressed) by the idea of 8,000 yard course? A tool for diversity it may be, but I'm guessing that as a number it means more to us here than to anyone else, and that as a marketing tool it will mean next to nothing to those in the intended/target market.   
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John Kavanaugh

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Re: America's First 8,000 yard golf course?
« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2015, 11:54:21 PM »
Most golfers have rooms in their homes they don't use, why not a few tees?  I've never owned a home where I was allowed to use each of the bathrooms but that doesn't cause me to dispute my sewer bill.
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Wayne Freeman

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Re: America's First 8,000 yard golf course?
« Reply #10 on: October 17, 2015, 12:37:22 AM »
I thought that Erin Hills has a set of tees over 8000 yards and that the owner wanted to have the first
  U.S. Open at that distance.
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Pete_Pittock

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Re: America's First 8,000 yard golf course?
« Reply #11 on: October 17, 2015, 03:47:14 AM »
won't let you forget Sevilano Links in California which can have 18 par 5s.
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Mike_Trenham

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Re: America's First 8,000 yard golf course?
« Reply #12 on: October 17, 2015, 08:55:25 AM »
If it will play downhill most of the way I would not expect it would be a tough walk green to tee.
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RSantangelo

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Re: America's First 8,000 yard golf course?
« Reply #13 on: October 17, 2015, 10:30:14 AM »
Quote from: Tom_Doak on October 16, 2015, 09:37:36 PM
Wasn't one of Gary Player's vocal criticisms of Chambers Bay that it was too long and that architects must stop building courses that are too difficult for average golfers ??



http://www.sbnation.com/golf/2015/6/20/8818415/gary-player-rips-chambers-bay-video-us-open-2015

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Jud_T

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Re: America's First 8,000 yard golf course?
« Reply #14 on: October 17, 2015, 12:01:56 PM »
I'd be much more enthused about a thread labeled "America's Last 8,000 yard golf course?"
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Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Peter Pallotta

Re: America's First 8,000 yard golf course?
« Reply #15 on: October 17, 2015, 12:47:53 PM »
Quote from: Jud_T on October 17, 2015, 12:01:56 PM
I'd be much more enthused about a thread labeled "America's Last 8,000 yard golf course?"


I'd be even more enthused about one labeled "The First Golf Course Ideally Suited Specifically to Peter P's Game".


I keep waiting, but maybe I need to just go out and design it myself.


Why not? That approach has worked out for Tom D well enough!  :)
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Jason Connor

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Re: America's First 8,000 yard golf course?
« Reply #16 on: October 17, 2015, 03:25:44 PM »
I thought some of the Jones Trail courses were stretchable to 8000, and that they were even playing some Nationwide/Nike/Hogan events there at 7700/7800 yards around 2000.


But that's based on memory -- so take that for what it's worth.


Though maybe those were tees that we're on the card.





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We discovered that in good company there is no such thing as a bad golf course.  - James Dodson

jeffwarne

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Re: America's First 8,000 yard golf course?
« Reply #17 on: October 17, 2015, 05:45:41 PM »
Quote from: Jud_T on October 17, 2015, 12:01:56 PM
I'd be much more enthused about a thread labeled "America's Last 8,000 yard golf course?"


There will be one in 50 years lamenting the loss of the 8000 yard executive courses....


Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.











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"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Sam Morrow

Re: America's First 8,000 yard golf course?
« Reply #18 on: October 17, 2015, 07:39:05 PM »
If someone doesn't like the idea of an 8000 yard course just don't play it. It's such a simple concept.
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Ken Moum

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Re: America's First 8,000 yard golf course?
« Reply #19 on: October 17, 2015, 10:23:54 PM »
Jug McSpaden built his Dubsdread course here in Kansas more than 50 years ago at 8,000 yards.

It's been shortened to about 7200 yards more recently.

K
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Over time, the guy in the ideal position derives an advantage, and delivering him further  advantage is not worth making the rest of the players suffer at the expense of fun, variety, and ultimately cost -- Jeff Warne, 12-08-2010

BCowan

Re: America's First 8,000 yard golf course?
« Reply #20 on: October 18, 2015, 09:21:29 AM »
Quote from: Sam Morrow on October 17, 2015, 07:39:05 PM
If someone doesn't like the idea of an 8000 yard course just don't play it. It's such a simple concept.

+1.

I'm looking forward to the first 9,000 yard course.  Those authoritarians will be outraged.   :-* :-*
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Howard Riefs

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Re: America's First 8,000 yard golf course?
« Reply #21 on: October 18, 2015, 05:38:52 PM »
Quote from: Wayne Freeman on October 17, 2015, 12:37:22 AM
I thought that Erin Hills has a set of tees over 8000 yards and that the owner wanted to have the first
  U.S. Open at that distance.

The black tees are 7,812 on the card but I believe that doesn't include some further tees that push it past 8,000.

http://www.erinhills.com/erin_hills_golf_score_card_2.aspx
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"Golf combines two favorite American pastimes: Taking long walks and hitting things with a stick."  ~P.J. O'Rourke

BCrosby

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Re: America's First 8,000 yard golf course?
« Reply #22 on: October 18, 2015, 05:46:43 PM »

Before you get on your high horse about 8k yard courses, note that on a historical, apples to apples basis, 8K is not very long for the pros. It is roughly equivalent to a 6400 yard course in 1930. As Bob Jones did in his day, an 8K course will force today's pros to hit middle and long irons into some par 4's. Heaven forbid.

In the meantime, the rest of us can use forward tees.


Bob
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Jason Chambers

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Re: America's First 8,000 yard golf course?
« Reply #23 on: October 18, 2015, 05:52:32 PM »
Who cares?  Like the monster SUV (Stupid User Vehicle) craze, there will always be those who only look at the length.  I'll take a course that is well thought out and has a mix of challenges aside from the 'grab your driver and then your three wood' on every hole.  Kinda tough to have some tricky short holes and a short three with great shot value when you have to have 8000 yards.  Just my two cents.
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John Kavanaugh

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Re: America's First 8,000 yard golf course?
« Reply #24 on: October 18, 2015, 06:51:31 PM »
One thing that bothers me about many people with a voice today is that in my youth when I could hit the bar long and far I do not recall a single gentleman who wished I was playing the same up tee as he. It seemed as though those who came before me admired the bigger homes, cars and breasts so enjoyed by the youth of the day. What happened where we now want our children to no longer be the best, for every child to be equal, for the grass to not only be greener on the other side of the fence but just greener damn the cost. I hope my children play 9,000 yard courses while living in 9,000 square foot homes while getting 9 miles to the gallon. That and 9% cheap beer sounds like a sweet future.
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