[Ben Hollerbach]

4 of the last 5 US victories on American soil occurred at courses south of the Mason Dixon line. Why does the PGA of America continuously schedule the event for northern venues(Hazeltine '16, Whistling Straits '20, Bethpage '24)?


At this time of year the weather in the southern part of the US is nearly perfect and the courses have not yet come down from their summer high in conditioning. It seems like an easy decision and something the PGA must have been aware of in the past, between 1951 and 1983 8 of the 9 US Ryder Cups were held at southern courses.


20 Ryder Cups have been played in the states, the US is 6-4 when playing in the North and 10-0 when playing in the South. Clearly the easiest way to win is to move the event to Pinehurst!

[Phil McDade]

Ben:


Pinehurst may be the exception -- but the Ryder Cup has become a massive venture, and it needs a course and related infrastructure that can handle the thing. Medinah is huge and it felt tight there at times last time around.

[Ben Hollerbach]

Phil,


Is it bigger in infrastructure needs than the US Open or PGA Championship?
I can't see why the Ryder Cup couldn't be played at southern venues that are also capable of hosting major championships.

[Phil McDade]

Ben:


My sense is that it's just as big, or bigger, than a major these days.

[David_Tepper]

"4 of the last 5 US victories on American soil occurred at courses south of the Mason Dixon line. Why does the PGA of America continuously schedule the event for northern venues(Hazeltine '16, Whistling Straits '20, Bethpage '24)?"

Ben -

You may be confusing coincidence with causation.

You may also be mistaken in assuming that choosing a site where the U.S. team is most likely to win is the among the highest priorities of the PGA when it comes to deciding where to stage the matches.

DT

[Ben Hollerbach]

David,


I'm aware how coincidental the streak is and mentioned it with a little tongue in cheek. I'm also aware that site selection has little to do with golf.  Neither disqualify my question. Beside Vahalla in 2008, the last time the Ryder Cup was played in the southern half of the US was 25 years ago, and at best it will be 2028 until it returns.


The heat that seems to often scare away major championships from southern venues is gone by early October, The Ryder Cup or Presidents Cup seems like the perfect time to display great southern venues like Southern Hills.

[Jim Nugent]

Beside Vahalla in 2008, the last time the Ryder Cup was played in the southern half of the US was 25 years ago...

You just explained why the US has such a great record in the south.  Virtually all the RCs held there were when the US had the world's dominant players.  The big exception was probably 1991, the war on the shore.  Otherwise, the US was expected to win the RC, and just about always did.   

If they'd held the RC in the south more the last 25 years, I think the south's record would have suffered like the north's did. 

Also, are you sure they held 10 RCs in the south?  I count 6. 

[Pete_Pittock]

Palm Springs is south of the (extended) Mason-Dixon line. That adds two.
Add the fact that GB&I pros likely didn't grow up playing on Bermuda grass.

[Josh Stevens]

May I ask an ignorant question - how are the US venues chosen?  Clearly it is just money in Europe, but it seems interesting that the Europeans started to win as soon as they moved away from good golf courses.

They got absolutely smacked at Walton Heath in 81, but then the 85 event at the Belfry marked the start of playing the event at ghastly potato paddocks and suddenly they started to win.

Statistically then, since 81, the probability of a European victory seem inversely proportional to the quality of the golf course.  Maybe American needs to learn something from this. 

[Jon Wiggett]

Josh,

I suspect that money is the reason for choice of venue in the US. As for why Europe wins so often these days I would suggest that it is because European golfers got better and played much more outside Europe including on the PGA Tour where as US tour players did not improve and travel to little outside the PGA Tour.

Jon

[Josh Stevens]

I suppose the point is that post Walton Heath, most of the courses have by and large been little more than the bog standard week to week US PGA style course.

Clearly looking way back it was more an issue of it being just UK and Ireland, and the US team was so strong, but the US still did very well on courses that on paper they should not have been familiar with.

The old adage of Euro players being more accustomed to links is of course rubbish as they play no more links golf than the Americans. 

Its interesting that the only time the Internationals have won the Presidents cup was at Royal Melbourne with the hot northerly wind and the Aussie and Kiwi players knew how to handle it - but that was before the days of Pro-V1 and big drivers. 

Is there any form of golf that the Americans should have an inherent advantage in these days, or are golfers now just all homongenous

[Jim Nugent]

Palm Springs is south of the (extended) Mason-Dixon line. That adds two.
Add the fact that GB&I pros likely didn't grow up playing on Bermuda grass.

California is the south? 

[Paul Gray]

20 Ryder Cups have been played in the states, the US is 6-4 when playing in the North and 10-0 when playing in the South. Clearly the easiest way to win is to move the event to Pinehurst!

Ok, we've got Martin Kaymer! 

[BHoover]

Because of television and the time difference for fans in Europe, I can't see the Ryder Cup ever going to the West Coast of the U.S. 

[Tim Martin]

May I ask an ignorant question - how are the US venues chosen?  Clearly it is just money in Europe, but it seems interesting that the Europeans started to win as soon as they moved away from good golf courses.

They got absolutely smacked at Walton Heath in 81, but then the 85 event at the Belfry marked the start of playing the event at ghastly potato paddocks and suddenly they started to win.

Statistically then, since 81, the probability of a European victory seem inversely proportional to the quality of the golf course.  Maybe American needs to learn something from this.

Josh-You don't think that the addition of Continental Europe in 1979 was the reason that the Euro's became competitive and started to win rather than the venue?

[Josh Stevens]

I'm sure Seve helped a bit

[Pete Lavallee]

Add the fact that GB&I pros likely didn't grow up playing on Bermuda grass.

Pete,

I think Ousthouzen, Schwarztel, Grace, Scott, Day and Lieshman would disagree with that statement!

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