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Terry Lavin

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Chicagoland GCA Top 25 Rankings (2015)
« on: October 06, 2015, 11:39:48 AM »
Inspired by the Michigan thread and employing similar methodology, I offer the Top 25 GCA rankings in Chicagoland.  We are not including any courses in Southern Wisconsin or Southwestern Michigan, even though some may fall within the CDGA.  No raters have participated in the tallying and the votes were done without consumption of a hoppy local IPA.

1.  Chicago Golf
2.  Shoreacres
3.  Olympia Fields North
4.  Butler National
5.  Medinah #3
6.  Beverly
7.  Skokie
8.  Old Elm
9.  Knollwood
10. Olympia Fields South
11. Exmoor
12. Bob O'Link (newly renovated)
13. Glen View Club
14. Flossmoor
15. North Shore
16. Black Sheep
17. Medinah #1
18. Conway Farms
19. Cog Hill #4
20. LaGrange
21. Briarwood
22. Edgewood Valley
23. Glen Club
24. Glen Flora
25. Bryn Mawr

Honorable mention:  Butterfield, Northmoor, Chicago Highlands, Glen Oak, Sunset Ridge.
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken

Bradley Anderson

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Re: Chicagoland GCA Top 25 Rankings (2015)
« Reply #1 on: October 06, 2015, 12:13:42 PM »
Terry,

I think you nailed it. Its great to see Glen Flora in there!

J_ Crisham

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Re: Chicagoland GCA Top 25 Rankings (2015)
« Reply #2 on: October 06, 2015, 12:18:24 PM »
Looks very accurate with the exception of Old Elm which is arguably top 3 now in Chicago .

Mike Treitler

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Re: Chicagoland GCA Top 25 Rankings (2015)
« Reply #3 on: October 06, 2015, 12:28:30 PM »
Was Canyata left off due to location?   I have not played Rich Harvest... not even top 30 worthy?


I think Kemper and Wynstone should make the list over Glen Club and Briarwood but overall a pretty great list. 


I still have yet to play Chicago, Butler, Canyata, Black Sheep, Rich Harvest,  Olympia South. 
« Last Edit: October 06, 2015, 12:37:10 PM by Mike Treitler »

Terry Lavin

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Re: Chicagoland GCA Top 25 Rankings (2015)
« Reply #4 on: October 06, 2015, 12:50:22 PM »
Was Canyata left off due to location?   I have not played Rich Harvest... not even top 30 worthy?


I think Kemper and Wynstone should make the list over Glen Club and Briarwood but overall a pretty great list. 


I still have yet to play Chicago, Butler, Canyata, Black Sheep, Rich Harvest,  Olympia South.

Good points.
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken

Jason Way

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Re: Chicagoland GCA Top 25 Rankings (2015)
« Reply #5 on: October 06, 2015, 12:51:12 PM »
Looks very accurate with the exception of Old Elm which is arguably top 3 now in Chicago .


+1


Old Elm is now in that elite class with Chicago Golf and Shoreacres, and they aren't even finished with the improvements yet.


I would add Lake Shore CC to the honorable mentions list.  It's certainly in the same class with that 20-30 group.
"Golf is a science, the study of a lifetime, in which you can exhaust yourself but never your subject." - David Forgan

Andrew Buck

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Re: Chicagoland GCA Top 25 Rankings (2015)
« Reply #6 on: October 06, 2015, 12:54:21 PM »
I've only played 14 of the 25, but I'd have a hard time putting Glenview Club above Black Sheep or Flossmoor.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2015, 02:16:23 PM by Andrew Buck »

Ian Mackenzie

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Re: Chicagoland GCA Top 25 Rankings (2015)
« Reply #7 on: October 06, 2015, 12:58:18 PM »
Looks very accurate with the exception of Old Elm which is arguably top 3 now in Chicago .


+1


But, IMO, Butler is overrated and would be perfectly at home with a Four Seasons built next door or with "Trump" on the doorway...;-)

Ian Mackenzie

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Re: Chicagoland GCA Top 25 Rankings (2015)
« Reply #8 on: October 06, 2015, 12:59:26 PM »
I've only played 14 of the 25, but I'd have a hard time putting Glen View Club above Black Sheep or Flossmoor.


Have you played GVC since Jim Urbina did the work there?

Bart Bradley

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Re: Chicagoland GCA Top 25 Rankings (2015)
« Reply #9 on: October 06, 2015, 12:59:49 PM »
Very nice list Terry.  Will serve as a useful guide for my next trip up to Chicagoland.

Bart

Matthew Sander

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Re: Chicagoland GCA Top 25 Rankings (2015)
« Reply #10 on: October 06, 2015, 01:02:45 PM »
Judge Lavin,


Did Barrington Hills factor into your thoughts at all? I haven't been there, but I've heard such good things.

Andrew Buck

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Re: Chicagoland GCA Top 25 Rankings (2015)
« Reply #11 on: October 06, 2015, 01:18:48 PM »
I've only played 14 of the 25, but I'd have a hard time putting Glen View Club above Black Sheep or Flossmoor.




Have you played GVC since Jim Urbina did the work there?

I have.  I enjoyed it very much and would be proud to call it my home course.  That said, while the bunkering was aesthetically pleasing, I didn't find it as memorable or strategic as the two I mentioned below it (although closer to Flossmoor).

It would also be fair to say I'm probably an outlier on how highly I think of Black Sheep, as I would have it above a few others I've played on this list.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2015, 02:14:16 PM by Andrew Buck »

Bill Seitz

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Re: Chicagoland GCA Top 25 Rankings (2015)
« Reply #12 on: October 06, 2015, 01:28:23 PM »
Am I the only person in Chicagoland (aside from its members, I'd assume) that likes Onwentsia?  I played Knollwood, Onwentsia, and Skokie each for the first time this year, and I really don't see a big gap between the three, and I certainly thought it better than some of the courses I've played down the list, like Edgewood Valley and Lagrange.  It doesn't have the quality of green complexes that you find at Knollwood and Skokie, but it's certainly the model from tree removal among those courses.  I love the routing there, especially for a suburban club where you might be limited on time in an afternoon.  I could put together countless 4,5,6, and 7 hole loops.  My biggest criticism would be that I found it odd to have a river which runs through or next to seven different holes, yet never once actually comes into play.  I rarely see it mentioned here, so I'm curious as to what the knocks on it are.

Jason Way

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Re: Chicagoland GCA Top 25 Rankings (2015)
« Reply #13 on: October 06, 2015, 01:46:03 PM »
Am I the only person in Chicagoland (aside from its members, I'd assume) that likes Onwentsia?


Great call Bill.  Can't believe that I (and the "panel") missed OC.  I can't imagine the argument for it not being in the top 15 on this list for anyone who has played it in the last two years.  The work that Scott Vincent is doing over there (with assistance from Bruce Hepner, I believe) is outstanding. 
"Golf is a science, the study of a lifetime, in which you can exhaust yourself but never your subject." - David Forgan

Mike Treitler

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Re: Chicagoland GCA Top 25 Rankings (2015)
« Reply #14 on: October 06, 2015, 01:47:27 PM »
I echo the sentiment on Barrington Hills.  Very underrated course IMO.   I have only played it once but remember having a very classic and unique feel. 


Also, I loved the Glenview Club.  Certainly belongs in the top 15 and quite possibly top 10 IMO. 

Scott Wintersteen

Re: Chicagoland GCA Top 25 Rankings (2015)
« Reply #15 on: October 06, 2015, 02:11:17 PM »
Terry,
 
Can you elaborate on Knollwood over Olympia South?  I played Knollwood for the first time this year and came away very impressed.  The green complexes and conditioning were great.  I thought the 13th hole was weak (we played the awkward tee to the left), but other than that a very solid golf course.  I think Olympia South offers better variety especially when you compare the Par 3's and Par 5's. 

BHoover

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Re: Chicagoland GCA Top 25 Rankings (2015)
« Reply #16 on: October 06, 2015, 02:15:50 PM »
What criteria were used to develop this list?

Brian Colbert

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Re: Chicagoland GCA Top 25 Rankings (2015)
« Reply #17 on: October 06, 2015, 02:49:22 PM »
Gut reactions:


-Butler better than OFCC North IMO (homer alert)
-Medinah #1 better than OFCC South - not sure if that means OFCC South too high or Medinah #1 too low. Black Sheep #1-18 better than both
-Onwentsia better than Lagrange, Glen Flora, Chicago Highlands, and Glen Oak
-It's hard to post after punching a hole through your computer screen when you read your home club should have "Trump" on the door

Ian Mackenzie

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Re: Chicagoland GCA Top 25 Rankings (2015)
« Reply #18 on: October 06, 2015, 02:53:00 PM »
Am I the only person in Chicagoland (aside from its members, I'd assume) that likes Onwentsia?


Great call Bill.  Can't believe that I (and the "panel") missed OC.  I can't imagine the argument for it not being in the top 15 on this list for anyone who has played it in the last two years.  The work that Scott Vincent is doing over there (with assistance from Bruce Hepner, I believe) is outstanding.


Agree 100% and i can't believe the OC was overlooked.
One of the oldest clubs in the district and RGD did a great restoration there 10+ years ago.


I dont care for Knolwood as much now post Keith Foster project. Very formulaic restoration just like CC of Detroit. Not a fan of the white sand either. Although it's  a great club. It was "grande dame" 10 years ago and they put lipstick and high heels on her. Now I hear the greens are going to be redone.

Bill Seitz

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Re: Chicagoland GCA Top 25 Rankings (2015)
« Reply #19 on: October 06, 2015, 03:30:13 PM »
Ian, I think the greens are going to be regrassed, much like the work Skokie is doing right now.  I think "re-done" may overstate it a bit.  I didn't get the sense they were going to mess with the contours, but you may have better information. 

Howard Riefs

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Re: Chicagoland GCA Top 25 Rankings (2015)
« Reply #20 on: October 06, 2015, 03:33:17 PM »
Judge -

Your top 7 on the whole remain consistent with the list you created in 2011 ... but you now have Chicago Golf and Shoreacres (rightfully, many say) jumping to the top. 

RGD did recent work at Shoreacres since 2011. What influenced you to catapult CGC three spots?
"Golf combines two favorite American pastimes: Taking long walks and hitting things with a stick."  ~P.J. O'Rourke

Ian Mackenzie

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Re: Chicagoland GCA Top 25 Rankings (2015)
« Reply #21 on: October 06, 2015, 03:50:15 PM »
Ian, I think the greens are going to be regrassed, much like the work Skokie is doing right now.  I think "re-done" may overstate it a bit.  I didn't get the sense they were going to mess with the contours, but you may have better information.


Same info, Bill, yet you stated it more accurately.
"Gas and burn" at Knolwood like at Skokie and just like Exmoor did last year.


Also surprised that there is no mention of Northmoor anywhere.


You could also make a new list with a strong roster of public access courses in Chicago.




Nigel Islam

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Re: Chicagoland GCA Top 25 Rankings (2015)
« Reply #22 on: October 06, 2015, 03:54:12 PM »
Cool list. I have played a few of these, and they certainly seem about where I would expect.

David Whitmer

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Re: Chicagoland GCA Top 25 Rankings (2015)
« Reply #23 on: October 06, 2015, 03:55:21 PM »
Judge Terry (or anyone else with the requisite knowledge),

I have played Chicago GC, Shoreacres, Butler National, and Skokie, and agree with their order on the list. I have not played OFCC, so for my education: why is OFCC North higher than Skokie? Can you take a few moments to compare and contrast them? Is the margin wide or fairly narrow?

Wayne Wiggins, Jr.

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Re: Chicagoland GCA Top 25 Rankings (2015)
« Reply #24 on: October 06, 2015, 03:59:38 PM »
What about Midlothian and Hinsdale?   Worthy for this list?