[Jason Thurman]

If the course requires a shuttle to the first hole, or between 9's is it "unwalkable"?

Yes, without question. A walkable course means you should never need transportation.

GCA - The only place in the world where people will travel thousands of miles by air and automobile to reach places like the Sandhills, the Oregon coast, or King Island, and then bitch about taking a 200 yard shuttle to the first tee.

[Carl Rogers]

Two issues prevent the construction of such bridges at Ballyhack (and other places): permitting and cost.

Bridges on eleven and seventeen would help a lot, but I can't imagine how much they would cost.  I'm sure Lester knows. .....

WW

Wade & et al,
Cart capable bridges would be at a minimum of $200k each.  The real difficulty would be getting a crane to the locations.

[JC Jones]

If Jud Tigerman could walk and carry at Kingsley it sure as heck isn't amber.

I love Ballyhack and Greywalls and think both are in that 7.5-8 range and would agree they both meet John Kirk's definition.  Both can be walked and certainly are walked but it would be a stretch to do it with regularity unless one is quite fit. (I.e. Sweet T)

[Craig Sweet]

Rock Creek is a tough walk...

[Chris DeNigris]

If the course requires a shuttle to the first hole, or between 9's is it "unwalkable"?

Yes, without question. A walkable course means you should never need transportation.

Well, to be totally badass you should walk from your home to the course.

Totally agree with BHack as a nominee.  I'd also suggest Royal New Kent (orig course prior to back nine desecration) as a contender.  Tobacco Rd would qualify in some books but I'm not sure that's really unwalkable.

[John Kirk]

Kingsley has a couple of tough climbs.  The walk up the first half of the 1st fairway, and between the 12th green to 13th tee.  In particular, it's best not to walk directly from the south 9th tee to the green.  The climb to the 9th green is a heartbreaker.  Best to stay on the high ground and walk around.

I don't think it's fair to discredit courses that require a shuttle/cart to the golf course.  A long distance between nine hole loops is perhaps more significant violation of the walkabilty.  On the other hand, a course like Kinloch in Virginia regularly shuttles players and their caddies between nine hole loops (estimate 500-600 yards, a scenic journey along the lake), but otherwise a very high percentage of players walk.

Perhaps a better indication is the percentage of players who walk the course.

When I've posed this question to friends, Kapalua Plantation course has been mentioned more than once as a great course that is very difficult to walk.

At Stone Eagle, a bridge over the ravine on the 14th hole would eliminate 200-300 yards of walking.  Similarly, a bridge over the 13th fairway would save a couple hundred yards of down and up.  It's not worth the expense, though.  So few people walk the course.

[Jackson C]

John,

I agree with Kapalua.
Kiawah Ocean has a shuttle that takes you from 9th green to 10th tee.

[Stephen Northrup]

I live in the DC area and Little Bennett is walkable, but no fun to walk. That's how I'd define "unwalkable" anyway. Anything is technically walkable, but if the walk detracts from your ability to enjoy the course....

[JC Jones]

John,

I agree with Kapalua.
Kiawah Ocean has a shuttle that takes you from 9th green to 10th tee.

The Kiawah shuttle is for pace of play given that they are a resort course.  That walk is quite flat and easy to do.

[Sean_A]

To me, its not a question of unwalkable, but enhanced enjoyment of the game and course for a good walk. Three of the best courses I have played where I think the walk negatively impacts the design and detracts from the enjoyment are


Tobacco Road
Dormie Club
Trump Aberdeen


I still think Trump Aberdeen is great, just not my bag...new tees without so much regard for views and championship play would help out the enjoyability of the game.
 
Dormie Club's issues are solvable at least to the point where the walk isn't a negative...if they did so I think the course would be great.


Tobacco Road is just screwed and will never be great unless they go for a bit of a routing change.




Ciao

[Shane Wright]

I struggle to come up with any that i consider unwalkable. But using John's explanation in post #1, Highland Links comes to mind. We walked it without issue. It felt more like a subtle backpacking day with some golf shots in between. But the place is so beautiful, Im not sure we thought much about getting tired or not.

[Adam Lawrence]

I struggle to come up with any that i consider unwalkable. But using John's explanation in post #1, Highland Links comes to mind. We walked it without issue. It felt more like a subtle backpacking day with some golf shots in between. But the place is so beautiful, Im not sure we thought much about getting tired or not.

Noooooooo! I think Highlands may be the greatest walk in golf!

[Craig Disher]

I've always thought of "unwalkable" courses as being of two types - those that are are tough walk due to climbing and descending and those that have such long distances between greens and tees that if I'm playing with someone in a cart, I become a drag on the game. Ballyhack is in the first camp but it's walkable for someone who's reasonably fit. RNK is in the second, along with so many courses sited in residential communities.

Sean - I agree that TR has a problem but it's only on the back 9 and could be helped by at least one fix that's been suggested but ultimately rejected by the owner. And early in its history, Dormie Club was much more walkable with maintained paths created as shortcuts - e.g. on the right of the wetlands on #2 and through the wetlands via a path and stone pavers on #15. The increased use of carts led to their demise and they're no longer maintained. Otherwise, I think the course is very walkable

[Shane Wright]

I struggle to come up with any that i consider unwalkable. But using John's explanation in post #1, Highland Links comes to mind. We walked it without issue. It felt more like a subtle backpacking day with some golf shots in between. But the place is so beautiful, Im not sure we thought much about getting tired or not.

Noooooooo! I think Highlands may be the greatest walk in golf!

I agree Adam, but some would consider it borderline unwalkable.

[Adam Lawrence]

I struggle to come up with any that i consider unwalkable. But using John's explanation in post #1, Highland Links comes to mind. We walked it without issue. It felt more like a subtle backpacking day with some golf shots in between. But the place is so beautiful, Im not sure we thought much about getting tired or not.

Noooooooo! I think Highlands may be the greatest walk in golf!

I agree Adam, but some would consider it borderline unwalkable.

I really don't think so. It's a _long_ walk, and I couldn't see too many doing a 36 hole day there, but there isn't anything especially difficult about it.

[Sean_A]

Sean - I agree that TR has a problem but it's only on the back 9 and could be helped by at least one fix that's been suggested but ultimately rejected by the owner. And early in its history, Dormie Club was much more walkable with maintained paths created as shortcuts - e.g. on the right of the wetlands on #2 and through the wetlands via a path and stone pavers on #15. The increased use of carts led to their demise and they're no longer maintained. Otherwise, I think the course is very walkable

Craig
Yes, if a new par 3 came in after 12 to replace the 17th, The Road would be far better.  That said, there is still a long walk between 9s...and several tees are an uncomfortable distance from greens. Think of 2 to 3, 3 to 4, 5 to 6. Throw in the roads etc on the back 9 and it all up makes for a very disjointed game of golf.  For me, the holes are good enough to be great, the routing/walk is not. 

I also agree that paths/boardwalks and perhaps a bridge would make Dormie a far better experience. 

Ciao

[Tom_Doak]

I actually did several lists in the back of Volume 2 of The Confidential Guide listing the best and worst courses with various degrees of unwalkability.  Can't remember exactly how I broke it down now, and I don't have the book handy as I'm traveling today.  I'll come back to it in a day or two.

[Garland Bayley]

Nothing is unwalkable

...

I guess you would be correct if you allow multiple days to walk the course with death by heat stroke one of the acceptable dangers.
Nullarbor Links certainly is not walkable in daylight hours of a single day.

[Jay Mickle]

I recall that at some point in the past Dormie had a plan for wetland development right transfer/buyout to provide suitable walking paths across the environmentally sensitive areas. But it required funds. Perhaps in the future.
I enjoy the walk there even with the roundabouts as there is seldom anyone there that I might hold up.

[Ben Sims]

My break point for walkable vs unwalkable is likely more severe than most. I consider any course where the walk itself makes me want to take a cart more than 50% of my rounds as a poor walk. And that would likely garner it an unwalkable rating in my book. For that reason, Kingsley and Stone Eagle tie as the best unwalkable golf courses I've ever played.


That's personal preference of course. And it's also why any course where I'd take a cart more than 50% of my rounds could be no higher than a Doak 7.

[Matthew Sander]

My break point for walkable vs unwalkable is likely more severe than most. I consider any course where the walk itself makes me want to take a cart more than 50% of my rounds as a poor walk. And that would likely garner it an unwalkable rating in my book. For that reason, Kingsley and Stone Eagle tie as the best unwalkable golf courses I've ever played.


That's personal preference of course. And it's also why any course where I'd take a cart more than 50% of my rounds could be no higher than a Doak 7.

Hi Ben,


I must say I am a little surprised that you would prefer a cart at Kingsley upwards of 50% of the time. It certainly isn't a cupcake walk, but I've found many courses much more severe. I'm not trying to be critical, just a little surprised.


Maybe I just need to get out more, but I haven't played many courses that I consider great that are essentially unwalkable. Old Silo in KY is a very tough walk, but I think that "great" is a bit of a stretch. I think it is very good, and frankly there are only a couple of spots that are extreme. However, they are very extreme and they can't be ignored.

[Matt Day]

The east course at Kau Sai Chau in Hong Kong would be an extremely tough walk. Even the golf carts found some of the climbs tough going

[Scott Little]

Are their high altitude courses that are great but difficult walks? Banff??


I might add in this category comfortable and reasonable walks for people of a variety of ages.  Also, do you carry & walk or push a cart?

Sir,


     Contrary to popular belief, Banff is only ~3,000 ft ASL.  The courses on I-64 in Colorado near Vail though are a different story.  I have played in Palm Springs in summer and would argue that temperatures in excess of 115 degrees not only make a course unwalkable, but also extremely hazardous (even if you can carry around a gallon water).

[Matt MacIver]

Blackwolf Run - River is a highly rated course and I wouldn't want to walk it and lug my clubs around; the course itself is fine but there some massive distances between a few holes, with serious inclines.


Tot Hill Farm is another, though it's not Great.

[Adam Lawrence]

Nothing is unwalkable

...

I guess you would be correct if you allow multiple days to walk the course with death by heat stroke one of the acceptable dangers.
Nullarbor Links certainly is not walkable in daylight hours of a single day.

Nullabor Links is not a real golf course

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