Does SHCC represent AWT's most unique green complexes ?

[Patrick_Mucci]

A redan that's really unique.


An hybrid Biarritz on a par 4


A green with a pronounced spine running from 3 to 9 O'clock


Large greens, small greens


Streams immediately adjacent to and fronting a green.
A pond immediately flanking and fed by the green


Pronounced backstops on greens.


Slope and contour


Elevated greens, downhill greens


Fabulous green side bunkering.


Are these AWT's most unique collection of greens ?

[Joe Bausch]

Positively maybe, Pat?!  Grin. 


I've not played all of AWTs courses.  Or really very many at all.


But the redan at Somerset is sublime, and so are many others.


Here is how my eyes and camera saw the course a couple of years ago:

http://xchem.villanova.edu/~bausch/images/albums/somersethills/

[Jon Cavalier]

Pat:

Here's a link to my tour of Somerset Hills with photos of many of the greens that you mention above: http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,59808.0.html

Somerset Hills is my favorite Tillinghast course, and I do believe that the course has the best and most original set of Tilly greens anywhere.

The Redan second is phenomenal:





The 5th green is simply amazing:









The par 3 8th is also a great example of the use of subtle undulation:



The 13th, the par 4 Biarritz, is virtually unique:







The 14th hole might be the best green on the course:





And the reverse Redan-like 16th is very impressive:




The remainder of the greens at Somerset Hills are almost universally excellent as well. I've played a fair number of Tillinghast courses, and for my money, it's not even close.

[Joe Bausch]

What he said.


Or showed.

[MCirba]

I forget when Phil Young told us that Tillinghast stopped drinking, but I'm fairly sure it was sometime after Somerset Hills.

It's amazing how good that course is on land that is truly not very special or in the least unusual for that part of New Jersey.

[Keith Phillips]

Haven't played enough Tilly's, but clearly need to get back to Somerset Hills based on those photos!

[Patrick_Mucci]

Keith,
 
SHCC has gone through a transformation.
 
The fairways are tight, relatively firm and fast.
 
They've culled trees from the property and it's a really wonderful golf course.
 
There's a photo hanging in the upper locker room, taken in 1953, before the invasion of the trees.
 
SHCC is the kind of course you can play every day and never tire of it.
 
Mike,
 
I don't know that I'd call the land, ideal for golf.
There's some quirk and there's some impediments, but AWT did a wonderful job in routing that course, or rather those two courses.
 
The front and back nine are polar opposites, but, both are terrific.
 
The incorporation of the huge, banked race track is fabulous.
 
The nines are reversed, like Mountain Ridge.
 
The front nine finish is much, much stronger as 7, 8 and 9 are far more challenging than 16, 17 & 18.
 
If you haven't played it recently, you need to return ASAP.

[Jim_Kennedy]

Jon,
What is it about AWY's Biarritz that makes it so unique?

[Jon Cavalier]

Jon,
What is it about AWY's Biarritz that makes it so unique?

Jim:

For one, it's a par 4. I'm not aware of too many of those, especially on classic, golden age courses.

For another, the tee shot is overa small rise which makes the landing area blind, but more importantly, obscures the day's pin position so that it cannot be seen from the tee (and there is no earlier hole on the course where the player can get a glimpse of its location).

For yet another, the front portion (which is maintained as green, not fairway) comes to a slight rise before dropping into the swale. This makes approach shots to a front pin easier, as the rise provides a small bit of backstop, but adds difficulty on approaches to the back of the green and especially to pins down in the swale.

For still another, the scale and slope of the swale itself affords a variety of great pin positions, including down in the swale itself (as seen in the photos).

None of the above features, taken individually, would make the SHCC Biarritz unique. But I am not aware of another Biarritz hole that combines all of these in one hole. The combination of these four elements results in an absolutely fantastic golf hole.

[Jaeger Kovich]

SHCC is definitely the most unique set of greens, and probably course overall too, I've seen from Tilly. I would think a lot of this came from the time it was build. One of his earliest designs, I would guess he was playing around and experimenting with his design concepts that would later be a little more refined. I really enjoyed getting to see this course earlier this summer, and hoping to get back again this fall.

[Mike Policano]

I think Jaeger is right on target here. Somerset Hills always has struck me as a wonderful course that bridges the early designs in the US and the more refined designs of the 1920's.


I also think that based upon reading and playing half of Tillie's existing designs, he designed SH while he was refining his own craft. There are a number of template holes/features that don't appear much on Tillie courses in the 1920's. SH has a redan, a Biarritz green, principal's nose, a race track incorporated in the course not shaped away, chocolate drops, wild mounding like on the fifth green and a few blind tee shots. These features do not appear on the other nine Tillie courses in Golf Mag's Top 100 US.


The work done by the Club and Renaissance Design over the past few years, and some bad storms, have opened up the vistas, widened fairways, recaptured greens and reduced rough around bunkers. The redan, arguably one of the three best in the US, now floats as all the trees around and behind the green have been removed. All of this and the comments above make SH a must play if you can.

[Jim Franklin]

As a member of another AWT design, I agree that SHCC has his most unique greens. I have always said that the 14th green is my favorite AWT green anywhere. I have not played SHCC in nearly 10 years but need to get back.

[MCirba]

Patrick,

I played there about 2-3 years ago and the work done to the course was exemplary.   Thankfully they left the apple trees because they make a nice snack.   

As far as the land for the course, it is good golf land but not in any way unique.   There are any number of courses in central NJ on similar land and I agree with you that the routing is exceptional, non-obvious, and creatively surprising at almost every turn.

Jaeger and Mike Policano,

I think you both make terrific points about the timing of SH in Tillinghast's design career.   He certainly wasn't shy at this stage and seems to be almost playful in his approach.

Interestingly, the Tilly course that most reminds me of SH in my mind is the pics I've seen of the original Shawnee course, where bold architectural man-made elements were blended with natural landforms to create something special.   Sadly, there is not much of his work left there.   I played Shawnee this past week and you can barely get a sense of what it was originally in the form of a few greens and remaining original holes.

[Jim_Kennedy]

Jon,


Thanks.


Thanks to you and Joe for the sharing the photos and your impressions. I love the look of that green, it also seems somewhat similar to Walter Travis' "Swale", which he too used on par 4s.

I'd love to have that 5th green in my backyard. 

[Josh Bills]

I loved Cavalier's photo so much I did a painting of it.  20x30 inches oil on canvas.  A great looking hole for sure.

[Steve Lapper]

A few more interesting tidbits about SHCC:




It likely has the very best set of diversified and distinctive par threes that AWT( or other ODG) ever built. Each is unique for distance, terrain, strategy and hazard. In edition to it's world-class Redan, it has an equally exquisite short, along with a very tough-but-fair long and a very demanding reverse redan. I've played most every Tilly of note and cannot think of another of his designs that come close. Few architects have such a complete package anywhere in their resume.


The land isn't in and of itself very unique, yet the routing capitalizes on nearly every feature found on this hillside property. The fields and once farmland of the front remains as open (post the tree-reduction efforts over the last 4-5yrs) and expansive. The intimate parkland of the back nine serves to provide for more hole-to-hole segregation.The nines can be flipped (and often are as many members seek to start their rounds on the 10th). Add to this a high degree of walkability and you get damn near sporty perfection.


Another noteworthy feature is the cumulative number of downhill approach shots. Unlike many courses that contain a near equal ratio of uphill-to-downhill approaches, SHCC tests throughly tests a player's temerity with strategic downhill shots that as often call for a ball to fly directly onto the green as to run onto one. This is further testimony to the genius of AWT's routing here.


Finally, while this course won't withstand the onslaught of a great player using modern equipment, it will provide one of the very best "sporty" tests found anywhere in North America. Like I once remarked--and later had expropriated by the Jabbering Green Ink man from Jersey--it's true test of sporty is just how much you wish to walk from the 18th green to the 1st tee. I'm not sure there are many other places around these parts I'd feel as strongly about going round again on as Somerset Hills.

[MCirba]

Very well stated, Steve.

In thinking about it, the downhill approaches you mentioned really turn up the dial on the "fun" and come at really opportune times throughout the round to balance things out.   

May I have the temerity to expropriate your observation in future discussions of Somerset Hills?   

[Steve Lapper]

Very well stated, Steve.

In thinking about it, the downhill approaches you mentioned really turn up the dial on the "fun" and come at really opportune times throughout the round to balance things out.   

May I have the temerity to expropriate your observation in future discussions of Somerset Hills?   

Mike,


   You are always welcome to anything of mine...save for first crack at the soup dumplings!

[Patrick_Mucci]

Steve,
 
I'm not so sure that I'd classify SHCC as an easy walk.
 
I'm also not so sure that it's a good thing to have the  honor on the 13th and 17th holes.

[Sean_A]

Yes, thanks for this thread...you lot have really opened my eyes to what looks to be a very special course I paid little attention to previously. One day....


Ciao

[Mark Saltzman]

I'm a bit surprised that there hasn't even been a mention of Winged Foot East given the green expansion work they completed. Having only played it and SHCC once I'm not going to pretend I can make a proper comparison but I did think the set of greens at WFE were among the best and most complex set I'd ever seen.

[Jeff Spittel]

I don't know if there is a more charming and enjoyable golf course anywhere in the world. To Pat's original point, there are a few wild greens here and there at both Winged Foot courses, but I can't think of another of his designs that matches the quirk of the 18 at SH. 

[Steve Lapper]

I'm a bit surprised that there hasn't even been a mention of Winged Foot East given the green expansion work they completed. Having only played it and SHCC once I'm not going to pretend I can make a proper comparison but I did think the set of greens at WFE were among the best and most complex set I'd ever seen.

WFE's greens are indeed amongst Tilly's best and most complex. Gil's expansion work reveals their brilliance, especially given the "pushed-up" nature of their construction. I've recently told quite a few folks that it's my opinion they are now most likely the very best set of greens  found anywhere on the East Coast.

That said, they pale in comparison to the uniqueness found at SHCC. Fewer greens at SHCC are pushed-up or even built above grade. They are extensions of the terrain and that terrain is anything but the relatively flat earth that exists at WFE.




PS....Pat, with an artificial knee, I recently walked and carried a bag at SHCC several times...other than the hill btw 12 & 13, it's very easy. Because it eluded you , they've closed the upper tee at 17 and only use the lower one these days!

[Ronald Montesano]

Saltzy,


Not everyone has played one or both of those courses. To wit, they/I cannot draw the conclusions that a man of your experience would undoubtedly make.


Your humble servant and neighbor,

[Tom_Doak]

One other tidbit about the course: when Dean Knuth told me the history of the Slope System, he said that their definition of 10/10 on the scale for greens difficulty was Somerset Hills ... which of course is quite close to Far Hills.