[Mike_Young]

I played a good golf course today where the supt had good tees mowed at around 1/2 inch.  They were mowed with a triplex mower and served the golf course well.  Yet we have allowed the cost of maintaining tees to skyrocket.  So many mow them at 3/8 inch or less with walking mowers, top dress constantly and yet we tee the ball.  Some are constructed to USGA specs and most are now sandcapped at a minimum.  .Most memberships would not know the difference and would appreciate the cost savings.  Why ??

[Tom_Doak]

I played a good golf course today where the supt had good tees mowed at around 1/2 inch.  They were mowed with a triplex mower and served the golf course well.  Yet we have allowed the cost of maintaining tees to skyrocket.  So many mow them at 3/8 inch or less with walking mowers, top dress constantly and yet we tee the ball.  Some are constructed to USGA specs and most are now sandcapped at a minimum.  .Most memberships would not know the difference and would appreciate the cost savings.  Why ??

Mike:


When I started in the business I spent little time on tees.  I figured you were just putting the ball on a peg, so the turf only had to be good enough that you didn't slip.


For years, I got pounded by feedback that the quality of tees was important to golfers, that after the greens it was the most important aspect of presenting a course.  Superintendents, golf pros, and course owners all told me this.  Golfers did not ever say so, that I can recall.  I'm really not sure where the impetus was coming from.  But people have been a lot happier since I started building cool tees.

[Mike_Young]

Tom,
Not saying not to build cool tees but some clubs are psending money they don't need to spend on maintaining tees and they really don't know they don't have to do it.

[paul cowley]

I like them cut collar height if the club can afford to....but fairway height is OK on a budget. Green height is silly regardless of budget. Rough height is fine if you use goats.

[Mark Pavy]

Generally I think most teeing areas are way too small, creating the need for more frequent top dressing. Make them big enough to get the fairway mower on there.

[jeffwarne]

I played a good golf course today where the supt had good tees mowed at around 1/2 inch.  They were mowed with a triplex mower and served the golf course well.  Yet we have allowed the cost of maintaining tees to skyrocket.  So many mow them at 3/8 inch or less with walking mowers, top dress constantly and yet we tee the ball.  Some are constructed to USGA specs and most are now sandcapped at a minimum.  .Most memberships would not know the difference and would appreciate the cost savings.  Why ??

+1


Don't worry
It's happened to fairways now at the high end-ironically the phrase "get in the bunker" isn't just because bunkers are no longer hazards-it's because the fairways are now

[Matthew Sander]

Good observation, Mike. After all, nearly all of the time the ball is placed on an actual tee within the confines of the teeing grounds. What difference should it make whether the grass is 1/2 inch or 3/8 inch? I can not speak to the mindset of someone that lets 1/8 inch determine their opinion of a teeing ground. As Tom Doak mentioned earlier, I'm not sure that golfer really exists. Tail wagging the dog?? I don't know...

[Jon Wiggett]

I played a good golf course today where the supt had good tees mowed at around 1/2 inch.  They were mowed with a triplex mower and served the golf course well.  Yet we have allowed the cost of maintaining tees to skyrocket.  So many mow them at 3/8 inch or less with walking mowers, top dress constantly and yet we tee the ball.  Some are constructed to USGA specs and most are now sandcapped at a minimum.  .Most memberships would not know the difference and would appreciate the cost savings.  Why ??

Case of the industry driving aesthetics over substance as there is A LOT MORE profit in it. It is not in anyway beneficial to the golfer and is detrimental to the costs. Collar or fairway height is fine for HOC.

Jon

[Adrian_Stiff]

Generally I think most teeing areas are way too small, creating the need for more frequent top dressing. Make them big enough to get the fairway mower on there.

I think the exact opposite to this. I think we make tees way too big now. The construction costs are a lot, the cost of watering is a lot. They cost a lot to maintain.

[Jon Wiggett]

I agree with Adrian, tees are better smaller and maybe having multiple tees. Don't see the reason for watering tees in the UK though unless room is a big problem.

Jon

[Joe Hancock]

Mike,

I think every part of the course gets constructed differently now because there is no patience in waiting for new features to be perfect in the eye of the golfer. It takes time for new work to settle in and work well, so we use more of an engineered approach to speed things up. It's expensive, has its own set of problems and takes more time to build....but it's hard to replicate the agronomics that only time can provide.

[Jeff_Brauer]

Mike,

All I know is, early in my career I didn't build all tees with a sand cap, but when I didn't, the core aerified, top dressed heavy for a few years to correct that mistake. Golfers couldn't achieve the basic function of putting the tee peg in the ground, so the tees were deemed failures.  I still resist, often using old green mix or a dirty sand not to USGA standards to save money on the tees, but even a few of these get complaints as being "too hard".

As to tee size, I have started making them somewhat smaller, expecting less play than the hey day, and also after interviewing my supers. Way back, I figured you couldn't make them too big on a busy public course, but when a few supers told me it took more than the standard 8 hour work day to mow them, I figured I better cut back.  The mix does allow slightly smaller tees, so it sort of balances out cost anyway.

By smaller, I mean 6K and maybe 8K on water holes and par 3's, as opposed to 7500-8000 and 9-10,000.  The back tees, which no one used can be as small as 15 x 15 feet, quite a savings.  I also pay attention to tee marker width, doing tees at multiples of the typical 15 ft. setting width, to avoid too much wasted space, and minimize tee size.

[Tom_Doak]

Case of the industry driving aesthetics over substance as there is A LOT MORE profit in it. It is not in anyway beneficial to the golfer and is detrimental to the costs. Collar or fairway height is fine for HOC.

I can see where the construction industry would push the subject to raise construction budgets.  But a lot of the pressure seems to be coming from the maintenance side, and spending more on maintaining tees does not make a course MORE profitable, it makes it LESS profitable, unless someone can demonstrate that people are happily paying higher green fees because of the quality of the tees.

[Mike_Young]

Joe and Jeff,
I agree with you as to sizing and modern construction but I'm talking of maintenance....so much is being spent now when just a few things can save thousands and never affect playability at all...

[Ryan Farrow]

Can we make the case that bigger does not always mean more expensive?


If large, free form tees are built and mowed at fairway height are they not cheaper to maintain than a set of 6, rectangular tees with square edges that are walk mowed every other day?

[paul cowley]

Good point Ryan...but I have no facts to lend support. The truth is I have never designed a course with walk mown tees or hard square edges.


I have done many with squarish corners and parallel edges...but the corners are designed by the tightest turn a tri-plex mower can make.


Tires on the ground are generally less expensive than boots on the ground...at least from a golf maintenance standpoint.

[Jon Wiggett]

Case of the industry driving aesthetics over substance as there is A LOT MORE profit in it. It is not in anyway beneficial to the golfer and is detrimental to the costs. Collar or fairway height is fine for HOC.

I can see where the construction industry would push the subject to raise construction budgets.  But a lot of the pressure seems to be coming from the maintenance side, and spending more on maintaining tees does not make a course MORE profitable, it makes it LESS profitable, unless someone can demonstrate that people are happily paying higher green fees because of the quality of the tees.

Tom,

can you say what the advantage is from a playing point of view for tees to have green quality swards as apposed to fairway quality. If the pressure comes from the greenkeepers have they explained the reason for needing such high quality swards to essentially stick a tee peg into? Still seems like aesthetics over function to me.

Jon

[Jim_Kennedy]

If a tee box is constructed in a manner similar to a USGA green the land & preparation costs can be capitalized and depreciated.

You don't get to do that if you build a 'push-up' tee box.

[Sean Leary]

What is the cost to maintain tees, ballpark? How much will it reduce costs?

[Ryan Coles]

If a tee box is constructed in a manner similar to a USGA green the land & preparation costs can be capitalized and depreciated.

You don't get to do that if you build a 'push-up' tee box.

However long it takes to go through your accounts, spent £, remains spent.

[Thomas Dai]

Should the tees on par-3's, where with irons the club generally hits down into the turf, be designed/constructed/maintained differently to those on par-4's and par-5's where the ball is generally hit with a more sweeping less divot taking action?
Atb

[Jeff_Brauer]

Thomas,

My guess is that is a better idea in theory than practice.  I think most supers would prefer the consistency of maintenance practices over any benefit of different construction techniques.

Tom Doak,

I am not sure what part of the construction industry you are talking about hurrying up to raise costs. Most contractors take their cue from architects, and most architects get paid the same whether or not they spec mix or not.  In my case, there is always a budget, and a decision to overbuild tees means reductions somewhere else, so it is a practical choice to do the minimum necessary to save funds for more desirable projects.

Mike Young,

In re-reading your OP, I wonder just what percentage of courses/clubs really do cut their tees at 3/8 vs. 1/2.  Was at Cowboys Golf Club this week and happened to ask the super what his HOC was on tees.  It was 1/2, just like the fairways, and this is a $185 public course.  Not sure what private clubs are doing all over town, but I agree there is no reason to cut Bermuda less than 1/2 for desired teeing surfaces.  Or, low mow blue, which does quite well at 1/2 inch, too.  I guess if you have bent tees and fairways you would also cut those the same, no? 

[Tom_Doak]

Tom Doak,

I am not sure what part of the construction industry you are talking about hurrying up to raise costs. Most contractors take their cue from architects, and most architects get paid the same whether or not they spec mix or not.  In my case, there is always a budget, and a decision to overbuild tees means reductions somewhere else, so it is a practical choice to do the minimum necessary to save funds for more desirable projects.

Jeff:


Some architects have a budget, and others have set a ridiculous standard for what that budget should be.  There are some who take the course that everything should be done in the most expensive way possible, to ensure "quality".  I'd prefer not to name names, I think most people could guess at the top two or three in this category.

[Jim_Kennedy]

However long it takes to go through your accounts, spent £, remains spent.

Ryan,
Spent, yes, but a club might feel that a USGA spec'ed tee is superior to a push-up, and the tax benefits might help push them in that direction.

 

[Jeff_Brauer]

TD,

Understood, but like my question to MY, I wonder how much of the market those 2-3 control?  A lot, I know. But not as much as most think.  Just like the distance question....we spend so much time talking about the 10% of the pro tour who can bust it over 300 yards regularly, or about 20 guys.  One would think its everyone, not even just everyone on tour who hits it that far.....

And the real question for discussion.....what is the cost value ratio of more expensive tee construction methods?  Up north, once you decide to use bent tees, maybe some extra construction is required to maintain them.  Down south, I agree with MY, that most Bermuda does pretty well in clay soils.  Give them a middling mix to make it easier to put a tee in and its so much the better, but nothing more is really required.  So, it varies with turf type, climate, maintenance regimen desired, traffic, etc. 

Supposedly, that is what we architects get paid for - to sift through all the site specific and project specific variables to come up with the most cost effective solution.  At least, for most of us, it is.

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