[MCirba]

Shelly,


Here's hoping all goes well with this very well intentioned project.


It is easy to be a cynic...much more difficult to actually do somethimg

[George Freeman]

The fact that Harborside is jammed every weekend at $100+ this course is going to do just fine charging $200 for non-residents and if resident rates are about $60, it will be packed.


The name of Tiger Woods combined with the allure of lakefront holes and skyline views is going to sell quite well.

Ding, ding, ding.  Harborside can fill its tee sheet at $75-100+ (for locals), and the golf is far from compelling.   With Tiger's name attached to it, the hosting of a PGA tournament, with lake holes / city views, and half the distance from the city as Harborside:  I don't see a problem getting people to play it...  The current course at Jackson Park is slammed all summer.

I completely agree that public funds should be minimal or zero.  If you can accomplish this project with private/corporate donations and keep greens fees for locals reasonable, I am really struggling to find reasons to oppose this project.

Two major advantages to help get it to the finish line:  1) proposed to be privately funded and 2) built on the current parcels already used for golf - no additional park/public space will be taken over.  #2 should keep the Friends of the Park blood hounds at bay.  Having Emanuel, Woods, Keiser, Rolfing, etc. (and likely Obama behind the scenes) advocating for it doesn't hurt either.

Assuming #1 and #2 above are accurate (and they can avoid the management/ownership drama encountered at Ferry Point in NYC), someone please explain why this should be opposed.  There are a lot of naysayers chiming in:  please enlighten us!

[Josh Tarble]

I'm sorry I haven't read the entirety of this thread, but if Tiger Woods is involved, this course will be successful. His name tied to a public course alone will be enough to get anticipation sky high and the relative lack of public options near the city will allow it to be a long term success.

On the community side of things, one only needs to look at East Lake's model as to how a course of this stature can completely rejuvenate a neighborhood.

[Tim_Cronin]

George,
   I'm not a naysayer as much as I'm a skeptic given the curious announcement (a release fed out on a noon Sunday when the Bears are kicking off with the Packers, without a news conference), the lack of funding information (though the Tribune reports the city and district expects Rolfing, a.k.a. the Chi Park Golf Alliance, to raise 80 percent, or $24 million if the $30 million cost holds), the lack of advance funding committed (civic projects of this type aren't usually announced until a big chuck of boodle is in the hopper), and that the idea is to replace 27 holes of golf and a range with 18 holes and some other amenities that will cost more to play.
   The benefits (caddie programs, First Tee involvement) to be enhanced by this – and they all exist now – would surely be enhanced even more, and more quickly, with direct donations and other involvement. And given BMW's disdain for Cog Hill (and nixing a date at Olympia Fields), Jackson Park's ZIP code hardly stands up with Lake Forest, Ill., Carmel, Ind., and Cherry Hills Village, Colo.
   So why do this if all the other benefits can be created without a rebuild? That's the question anyone Rolfing asks for a donation should ask him.
   I said more in my column at www.illinoisgolfer.net this morning.
Tim

[Paul OConnor]

Hey Andy Johnson,

In your "fried egg" write up you penned the following:

"The thrills of the lakefront holes could culminate with a potential cape hole, where Woods could test a player’s appetite for risk with an epic tee shot over the shores of Lake Michigan. This hole possesses a world of potential, and the land allows it to be anything from a short par 4 to a long par 5 along the lake. Personally, I would love for the team to figure out a way to make this hole the 18th. A fitting end to Chicago’s championship golf course."

I'm pretty sure I know how the people on the beach will feel about hackers blasting away on a 260 yard carry over their heads for your proposed cape hole.  There is a public beach here man, no one is giving that up for this golf course, it's one of the nicest beaches on the south side, and is now accented by some great dunes on the south end. 

Going to have to route around this. 

[Andy Johnson]

Paul,


As i wrote earlier in the piece, I was simply talking about what they could do with the property. Since writing it I have learned more about the project and it sounds like that hole is a real possibility. Not sure what they will do with the beach.

[Terry Lavin]

Andy,


Not to worry. Few of the uninformed whiners have ever played either course, or were were present at the only public meeting of community, government and philanthropic leaders. Real information is so tedious.


Nonetheless, this is better than a 65% shot despite the anti-Obama, anti-South Side and anti-muni crowd's panting hereabouts. The surrounding neighborhood looks a lot like Evanston which even the well-heeled North Shore typists here pretend to admire.


What's worse: Most of the private money comes from the well heeled with a conscience who can hate Obama but hope for the kids who might benefit should this ever come to pass. This is about preservation, redevelopment and opportunity, not dredged up Obama crap. He wants no part of Exmoor anyway.


If it does happen, the whiners can stay safely north of Willow Road, 50 miles away from where I grew up which is about ten minutes from Jackson Park and fifteen minutes from Beverly.


You can get shot in Winnetka too, with or without a good golf game.


While you're googling Rezko, just type in Laurie Dann.   

[Terry Lavin]

Touchy, touchy...


Laurie Dann?  That was almost 30 years ago, predating the time Butler National flooded, I think.


All I'm saying, Terry, is that it's a crappy, wastefully arrogant idea because if you're going to do something to actually help that neighborhood (as opposed to mugging for cameras, pretending to do as to curry favor in advance of the next mayoral election), there are a LOT of higher and better-use ways to do it that can be a lot more uplifting for the community than building a golf course for rich yuppies so they can save themselves the horrible inconvenience of driving an extra half an hour.

And all I'm saying is you're are an uninformed bigoted and unwelcome presence on the South Side. Don't like Hyde Park, Kenwood, Stony Island, then stay safe, stay away and stay North. Stay away. Then again maybe Ben Cowan (Michigan) can get you comped at Rav.


BTW most of the charitable money goes for cheap resident fees and caddies. Not that you would know. Why learn when you can bloviate?

[Terry Lavin]

What a colossal waste of resources.  $30mm?  Plus the cost of the tunnels they need to build?  I'll see their $30mm and raise them $40mm.


Have they learned nothing from the Rio waste of money that is about to close?


All so they can glorify the ego of a disgraced has-been who defrauded his way to the top ...


... and have Tiger Woods design the course, to boot!


Where's Tony Rezko when you need him?


 I can't imagine people actually paying $200 to go to 67th and Stony Blvd.  Frankly, most people would pay $300 to NOT go to 67th and Stony. 


Epic fail coming here.  Absolutely epic.

All ad hominems well earned and I'm
Not going back to the "I had to tell my kid what a hooker is" days of yore. Just own your Trump future. Who needs Rezko when you have the Combover.

[BCowan]

Because I think there are better ways to help a neighborhood than golf, I get ad hominems?


Have another...

Shivas,


   You are welcome anytime to join me at the Rav.  Your earlier rebuttal was hilarious.  Gotta love the irony of folks into helping the disadvantaged and then calling people trunkslammers in prior threads.  Oh and according to the trunk slammer, the Rav should be plowed because it's not top 30 in Chicago. Nothing but the best, anything under a Doak 7 should get plowed under with trunk slammers moronic logic.  Shivas I raise u to $70 million, everyone needs a cut. 

[Terry Lavin]

One can hope, but not count on, such perfect, if unintentional support like this, but I appreciate it.

[Ian Mackenzie]

TL and DS:


Sounds like a classic "Sox vs. Cubs", "south side v. north side", "Indiana Dunes v. Lake Geneva", "Brother Rice v. Loyola" bunch of silliness....;-)


Go Hawks!
Merry Xmas.

[PCCraig]

Sounds like a classic "Sox vs. Cubs", "south side v. north side", "Indiana Dunes v. Lake Geneva", "Brother Rice v. Loyola" bunch of silliness....;-)

Err....not quite, Ian... 

[Paul OConnor]

"The surrounding neighborhood looks a lot like Evanston..."

Really?  Evanston, Illinois?   A bit of a stretch that one.
 

[Terry Lavin]

Paul,


I'm not kidding. I took a half hour and drove around the neighborhood. Looks very much like Evanston with a higher concentration of apartment buildings. It's surrounded by poverty, death and despair but the adjacent neighborhood is very fetching.

[Jeff_Brauer]

I was always a north sider, land beyond O'Hare guy, but hey, there are some nice areas on the south side, too.

[Paul OConnor]

Paul,


I'm not kidding. I took a half hour and drove around the neighborhood. Looks very much like Evanston with a higher concentration of apartment buildings. It's surrounded by poverty, death and despair but the adjacent neighborhood is very fetching.

Terry,

  I grew up in South Shore, and then moved to Evanston, so I know both places pretty well.  The vague similarities end with the physical appearance of the homes and buildings.  Two entirely different worlds.

I still have great affection for the South Shore neighborhood, and SSCC in particular.  Spent many summers there.  Back in it's day, South Shore was one of the truly great neighborhoods in Chicago, unfortunately, those days are not returning anytime soon.  Like not in my lifetime.   

If this deal got set up like East Lake, where the golf profits funded a foundation whose mission was to improve the neighborhood, I'd be less skeptical about the benefits to the neighborhood.  With Chicago Park District, Rahm, Mike Ruemmler, and Tiger Woods all involved, I suspect there will be little money left for any real community investment. 

O'Connor

[Howard Riefs]

How the sausage is made...


http://http://chicago.suntimes.com/news/sweet-rahm-emails-reveal-secret-golf-course-planning/

[Jud_T]

Upon further reflection, I can see both sides of this argument.  The South Side is not the uniform wasteland that many assume.  Hyde Park, Bridgeport, Pilsen and the South Loop have all seen a bit of a renaissance as the cost differential for a similar commute to downtown widened.  At some point an extra $1500 a month becomes more important than the unspoken desire to avoid seeing black and brown faces. Furthermore the public options for the discerning golfer are limited both in terms of design interest and locale.  In theory combining this with an extension of the museum campus and the Obama library could well spark further development.  Beyond a few jobs though I'm not sure how this helps the locals all that much.  Further gentrification and higher greens fees, not to mention Rahm's need to change the news cycle from sitting on police brutality videos by trotting out Tiger give one pause. I doubt the guys I see paying $13 winter rates to walk are high fiving at the turn over this.  I'd say a wait and see approach is appropriate.

[Jim Nugent]

 I take it most golfers who play there now are not the Wall Street type set.  Can they afford doubling or tripling their current greens fee, or will the higher prices crowd them out?

Also, if the course attracts lots of newcomers, will that mean less time for the locals?     

[Andy Johnson]

I took some great photos last night at sundown. However, I am an idiot and can't seem to figure out how to post them on the message board. If someone can email me at andy@friedegg.co (.co not com) I would be happy to send them along to be posted.

[John McCarthy]

Andy:. I think a third party hosting of photos is necessary...Photobucket was used.  Try searching "how to post photos" and there is a good tutorial. 


I looked at Google Earth yesterday briefly and my memory of a short par 3 skyline green at South Shore may be faulty. 

[Joe Bausch]

I took some great photos last night at sundown. However, I am an idiot and can't seem to figure out how to post them on the message board. If someone can email me at andy@friedegg.co (.co not com) I would be happy to send them along to be posted.

I can host them on my server if you wish.  I'm not hard to get into contact.  Grin.

[Wade Whitehead]

Maybe they'll get Michael Jordan to design their next basketball arena.

WW

[Joe Bausch]

Maybe they'll get Michael Jordan to design their next basketball arena.

WW

If he brings back that pipe organ from the stadium, I'm all for it.   

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