[John McCarthy]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/golf/ct-chicago-golf-course-bmw-championship-spt-0916-20150915-story.html

The plan would combine South Shore and Jackson Park. 

My preferred plan would be adding 600 acres to Northerly Island, 200 acres of park, 400 of golf.  That would have downtown views, a short uber from tens of thousands of hotel rooms.  Between Soldier Field, McCormick Place and Millenial Park there is a ton of parking.

Make no small plans.

[Mike Demetriou]

Love it, John. Make no small plans indeed!  Scaling back down to reality though, I think this is a really cool idea. I wonder if this is a trial balloon or if there are larger plans already underway? The Emanuel administration has to stay away from this for sure, but I wonder if they've given a green light tacitly already? This is a beautiful stretch of land, and if someone took the time to simulate a manufactured design, this could be an incredible throw back homage, which would be appropriate given the setting. 


(Its good to be back on GCA!)

[John McCarthy]

Mike:  The Chicago Park District has a contract with Billy Casper Golf to run all golf facilities through 2029.  Looking at the condition of Waveland and the other courses my trust in their running a championship facility is very low. 

A landfill on the lake requires a state law as well as agreement of the other member states of the Great Lakes Compact.    All land created is state land.  Plus a state highway (Lake Shore Drive) appears to be altered under the current plan.  So all roads to this run through Springfield. 

Also, since a navigable waterway (Lake Michigan)  is involved the Army Corp of Engineers needs to sign off.   

The park district and city have terrible bond ratings. 

There is one entity that has a decent credit worthiness and a generation of experience owning and operating land and tourist facilities, bonding and taxing power - McPier or the Metropolitan Pier and Exposition Authority.  If they do it, no taxpayer money is used and it fits in their portfolio. 

But the cost will be dear.

[Jason Way]

to simulate a manufactured design

What does this mean?

[Terry Lavin]

This could well be an item on the Mike Keiser bucket list.  If so, I wouldn't bet against it coming into fruition, longshot though it may see to be.

[PCCraig]

It's such a great idea that even I thought of it 6 years ago... :

My vote for best potential site...the lakeside Jackson Park / South Shore golf courses on the south side of Chicago!

That being said...there is  a zero chance of the plan, as stated in the article, ever happening.

[Howard Riefs]

A ringing endorsement from the Chicago Park District: "(We are) constantly looking for ways to provide growth and expansion of our golf programming for residents and visitors alike."

Nice idea but not going to happen.

[Jud_T]

Who knows?  The Obama library is proposed to cost $500mm.  This may seem like a natural adjunct to developing that whole area before its all said and done.  Filling in the lake opens a whole other can of worms however. 

[Paul OConnor]

 .

[Mark Smolens]

With over 8000 yards of golf holes between the two courses, surely there's a creative architect out there who could put together a routing for 18 really cool holes, and a short course for kids (similar to the 9 hole Cantigny youth links)? If Mr. Keiser can build destination resorts in southern Oregon, Nova Scotia, and north central Wisconsin, I have no doubt that putting something together on the south side of Chicago is well within his abilities.

They already have a huge First Tee program. Could be a very cool addition to the Chicago golf scene.

[Adam Clayman]

This is not a new idea,(at least 30 years old) but, with the Presidential Library facet, it seems like a no brainer.(Massive budget) Concerns would be the impact on traffic flow and safety. Without a considerate thoughtful golf visionary like Keiser as the PM, this will all just be a typical pie in the sky political boondoggle. Oh yeah, and crappy golf architecture.

I hope they restore the Stables too. There was always something special about the smell of horseshit on that corner, in that urban setting, especially with the train tracks on 71st St. that will reek boondo$$le and accentuate it's sense of place.

Rolfing's carrot of a tour stop, is the worst justification.

[Tim_Cronin]

How long did it take Ferry Point from idea to first tee shot?


Plus, this is Chicago. You'd need hand sanitizer on every tee to get the grease off the palms after the payoffs.


The story speaks of caddie scholarships. Jackson Park had a caddie program a few years back and at least one Evans was awarded. Judge Lavin may be able to enlighten us on the current state of the JP's caddie operation.


Given that there's a concept for 27 holes, and 27 exist now, I think it would be much ado about little gain. Why not improve Jackson Park's course, period?


There's one other problem. BMW wants to (and does) play every other year out of Chicago. And it doesn't want to play south of Madison Street. Ask the Jemseks at Cog Hill, and note that Olympia Fields was turned down.

[Jud_T]

How long did it take Ferry Point from idea to first tee shot?


Plus, this is Chicago. You'd need hand sanitizer on every tee to get the grease off the palms after the payoffs.


The story speaks of caddie scholarships. Jackson Park had a caddie program a few years back and at least one Evans was awarded. Judge Lavin may be able to enlighten us on the current state of the JP's caddie operation.


Given that there's a concept for 27 holes, and 27 exist now, I think it would be much ado about little gain. Why not improve Jackson Park's course, period?


There's one other problem. BMW wants to (and does) play every other year out of Chicago. And it doesn't want to play south of Madison Street. Ask the Jemseks at Cog Hill, and note that Olympia Fields was turned down.

Tim,


While I agree with most everything you said, there were issues beyond location with Olympia and Cog I believe.  Also the Museum (Presidential Library) Campus isn't nearly the same hike as Olympia Fields or Lemont and is actually in the city limits.  I do agree wholeheartedly though that the impetus shouldn't be the BMW but rather the public access/caddie aspect of the course(s) which would probably dovetail quite nicely with the focus of the Obama Library.   

[Joel_Stewart]

Mike:  The Chicago Park District has a contract with Billy Casper Golf to run all golf facilities through 2029.  Looking at the condition of Waveland and the other courses my trust in their running a championship facility is very low. 

Kemper is based in Chicago and could could build and manage in a separate agreement. 

[Carl Nichols]

I played a lot of golf at Jackson Park and South Shore back in the mid-90's, and unless significant work has been done in the interim (which I assume isn't the case), a ton of work would be required to make them into good courses--principally because they are on dead-flat sites.  The drainage sucks too (as a result?).   

[Howard Riefs]

"Mike Keiser said he believes that Tiger Woods is 'on board' to be the architect and might be willing to waive his design fee, given that the course would benefit The First Tee of Greater Chicago."

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/golf/ct-tiger-woods-south-side-golf-greenstein-spt-0916-20160915-story.html

[Alex Miller]

"Mike Keiser said he believes that Tiger Woods is 'on board' to be the architect and might be willing to waive his design fee, given that the course would benefit The First Tee of Greater Chicago."

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/golf/ct-tiger-woods-south-side-golf-greenstein-spt-0916-20160915-story.html

Also a "2 in 3" chance of it happening. Very interesting.


I like what I've seen of Bluejack National and think there are far worse choices than Tiger Woods for the job, but hopefully he can collaborate with another seasoned veteran of golf course architecture.

[JReese]

The article also mentioned that Ben Crenshaw has made a visit and that there may "be room for more than one person" which is encouraging.  The only reason I can see them tying the building of this course to hosting an PGA tournament is the promise of generated revenue being invested back into the community.


I do like the fact that they are talking about building a short course as well as making the main course not overly difficult for the average golfer.  The main hurdle will be getting people to actually risk their safety driving to and from the course. 

[Ian Mackenzie]

I do like the fact that they are talking about building a short course as well as making the main course not overly difficult for the average golfer.  The main hurdle will be getting people to actually risk their safety driving to and from the course.

Really? Do you live in the city or are you just some "708er", or worse, a "630er" who ventures into the city to see a game or go to some tourist trap at Navy Pier with your nephews and nieces? Or, you live downstate and went to U of I and have never left the area.


Some other destinations within a half mile of this proposed project: University of Chicago, Museum of Science and Industry, Jackson Park Yacht Club, President Obama's house, Chicago Lab School, Obama Library, etc.


Harborside is a success and that is MUCH farther away.
This course is easily accessible just off Lake Shore Drive.

[Tom Bacsanyi]

Interesting!  I used to live in Chicago, and as Jackson Park is literally the only 18 hole course within 20 minutes from the city proper, I played there a ton and had lots of fun.  It was terrible of course, but it was golf, and a welcome escape from the concrete jungle.  Somebody asked why they couldn't just improve Jackson Park. There is literally no room.  The course tips out at LESS than 6000 yards, and even if you stretched every hole out to the max I'm not sure you could even nudge it over 6.  By itself it's only around a 100 acre footprint and the holes are all on top of each other.  Absorbing the South Shore course would take it up to 160 acres.

One quick story.  I sliced a drive on the 5th hole along the fence line once.  On the other side is a street and apartment buildings.  As I'm walking up there's a boy holding my golf ball on the other side of the fence. 

Him:  Hey mister, you want your ball back?
Me:  Yeah!
Him:  Five dollars.
Me: Keep the ball, kid.

Classic Jackson.

[Terry Lavin]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/columnists/ct-jackson-park-south-shore-golf-spt-1019-20161018-column.html

This is a link to an article in today's Chicago Tribune sports section.  No, it's not about the anemic Cubs offense, it's about this idea of combining Jackson Park and South Shore to create a championship layout.  There's a decent chance it could happen.  Like Jim Carrey in Dumb and Dumber asked this girl what his chances were with her.  She looked dumbfounded and said nothing.  He said, "come on, Mary I came half way around the country to find you.  What are my chances?  "Maybe one in a million," she said.  Sooooooooooooo, you're tellin' me there's a chance.

The fact that the Obama library is being built in a nearby neighborhood gives this project a chance.  As a South Sider myself, it was amazing to play these courses and look at the serene surrounding neighborhood.  Three miles to the west is poverty, violence and despair, but this area still looks great.

Here's a link to the Google Maps satellite view of the two golf courses:  https://www.google.com/maps/place/South+Shore,+Chicago,+IL/@41.771724,-87.5828275,1865m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x880e28451b90dff9:0xebe200bd6e0aa8a2!8m2!3d41.7600005!4d-87.5741877

[Tim_Cronin]

Good story by Teddy. Jackson Park, of course, is the site of Chicago's original muni, 9 holes in 1899, but that course is long gone. The first tee was at the current back door of the Museum of Science and Industry, with the shot over a lagoon. Tough opener! It then went to the current Bob o link Meadow and to Wooded Island (see the Google Maps view Terry Lavin provided).



None of that course exists today. The current 18 is, as Tom Bascanyi mentioned, on the edge of the city, and effectively intertwined with it. Before the U.S. Open was played at Bethpage Black, I wrote a column proposing a real public U.S. Open should be played at Jackson Park, as is, complete with ambulance and police sirens and all the roar of the city going on, in then-typical Jax conditions, with long fairway grass and take your chances greens. (They were beginning to improve under Kemper's management at the time.)


South Shore, on the other hand, is an original Tom Bendelow, of which there are few left. The original greens of 1905-06 came from Washington Park Golf Club when it (dating to 1896), and the original race track, closed at that time. I'd hate to see that gem torn up.

[George Freeman]

The main hurdle will be getting people to actually risk their safety driving to and from the course.

James, please...

[Tim_Cronin]

The main hurdle will be getting people to actually risk their safety driving to and from the course.

James, please...

The area is no prize. There are occasional shootings in the neighborhood south of Jackson Park and west of South Shore. The lynchpins of the museum and the nearby (and much safer) University of Chicago, along with Mount Carmel High School and a few other civic institutions, have helped, but it's still among the most crime-ridden areas of the city. See: https://www.neighborhoodscout.com/il/chicago/crime/  and click on any area on the south lakefront. No easy fix for that.

[Terry Lavin]

Ok, I've heard the oft-repeated tales of teeing off at JP only to have your clubs stolen and offered for resale on the third tee. Actually that's all garbage, but JP and SS are not that far from poverty, violence and despair. They lurk a couple miles to the west and south. I know because I see the cases every day. Having said that, the adjacent neighborhoods are pretty, serene and non-gentrified. Come in off Lake Shore Drive and you'll see not see anything disturbing.

It's an ambitious plan to reinvigorate a beautiful lakefront park and neighborhood with historic golf courses ready for refurbishing. The Obama Presidential Library will be a great anchor.

I'll endow a Trump spittoon. Come and photobomb me at the opening.

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