[Rob Marshall]

I've never understood why the 1st hole at Royal Portrush has out of bounds in the left side fescue. I sent them an email after playing there and they were kind enough to reply but their answer was basically "because we can but we realize it is controversial". Paraphrasing. What they wrote was nicer......I can't think of any reason for it to be there.

[Bill_McBride]

I've never understood why the 1st hole at Royal Portrush has out of bounds in the left side fescue. I sent them an email after playing there and they were kind enough to reply but their answer was basically "because we can but we realize it is controversial". Paraphrasing. What they wrote was nicer......I can't think of any reason for it to be there.

Usually it's because there's an attractive but very dangerous option to drive into an adjacent fairway where there could be oncoming traffic.  Perhaps the hole is a dogleg left with lots of fairway sand. A tee shot way left could be a good play.  I'm sure this is near the top of routing taboos. 

[BCrosby]

Interior OB has been a contentious issue at Hoylake for more than a century.


Bob

[Kalen Braley]

A course in Spokane I played several times fits the bill as Bill has suggested.
 
Par 5 that was a dogleg right, with the next hole coming back on the inside of the dogleg.  You could hit down the other fairway and cut off 20-30 yards on a direct line to the hole, and take a massive fairway bunker out of play as a bonus.  It was internal OB for years until they finally removed it. 
 
The only thing keeping folks from not using that route more today is the 2nd shot into the green is all carry over a large pond, as opposed to playing up the "correct fairway" which gives the golfer a much better playing route into the green.

[Bill_McBride]

Interior OB has been a contentious issue at Hoylake for more than a century.


Bob

It does add interest to the rather flat holes around the old race course!  I can't think of many scarier tee balls than the original first hole.  OB left and right and typically right into the prevailing wind, it's the definition of a "white knuckler."

[Sean_A]

Interior OB has been a contentious issue at Hoylake for more than a century.


Bob

There is no interior OOB at Hoylake.  The OOB is off the course; that is very different from interior OOB where a part of the course is off limits from another part of the course.


To answer the question, interior OOB is a sign of bad design and in theory, should not exist.


Ciao

[Rob Marshall]

Interior OB has been a contentious issue at Hoylake for more than a century.


Bob

There is no interior OOB at Hoylake.  The OOB is off the course; that is very different from interior OOB where a part of the course is off limits from another part of the course.


To answer the question, interior OOB is a sign of bad design and in theory, should not exist.


Ciao

Which leads me back to....why would there be OB in the middle of dense fescue? There certainly is no advantage gained hitting the ball left on one on the Dunluce.

[BCrosby]

Having played Hoylake several times, was I misinformed that the practice range in the middle of the course marked by white stakes, right of the 1st fw and right of the 16th fwy, was to be played as OB?


As I recall Darwin wrote an essay criticizing courses with "interior out of bounds" and referenced Holylake.



Bob

[Jonathan Mallard]

Round Meadow in Christiansburg has OB on hole 5 for the tee shot only. The purpose is to keep people from driving the green.


You can hit a 150 yard shot, and have an uphill wedge, or hit a 220 yard shot and have a more straightforward pitch. The hole is in between 2 of the better holes on the course, they tucked the green left past a chute of trees just to where it isn't visible. But, yes, a 240 yard draw could find the surface.

[Josh Stevens]

I recall an example (but cant recall the course) where it was employed to protect an environmentally delicate part of the course from people stomping about.  I recall asking why it couldn't have simply been made a hazard and the reply was that OOB was the only way to keep people out - as a hazard golfers would of course have the option of going over the fence and trying to play it.  They also thought that it was nice to have at least one death or glory shot on the course, as there was a significant advantage in playing as close to the fence as possible.

So I don't necessarily think it is always bad design (although it often is) as there may be valid reasons for it - its a question of how it plays.

[Jaeger Kovich]

There is only 1 hole I don't mind it. #5 at Royal Worlington and Newmarket. I don't really understand why it is there, but it doesn't detract from the hole in my mind.

[Pete_Pittock]

One answer may be given by the Rules of Golf. You cannot practice on the course on the day of a stroke play competition.
By defining the practice area as OOB, you allow practice there, but create an "interior OOB". That has remained at Hoylake, but the more controversial OOB left of the par 3 has been removed.

I have never been at Portrush, but it may have to do with pace of play on an opening hole.

[Richard Hetzel]

Birdsfoot GC (3rd or 4th hole I believe) near Pittsburgh has such a hole and they staked it that way to protect against driving the green as it was a short par 4. I didn't agree with how they staked it, but what can you do?

[Jon Wiggett]

One answer may be given by the Rules of Golf. You cannot practice on the course on the day of a stroke play competition.
By defining the practice area as OOB, you allow practice there, but create an "interior OOB". That has remained at Hoylake, but the more controversial OOB left of the par 3 has been removed.

I have never been at Portrush, but it may have to do with pace of play on an opening hole.

Pete,

The practice ground is not considered to be part of the course when used for practicing.

Jon

[Duncan Cheslett]

The idea that Hoylake has internal OOB is mistaken - it merely separates the practice ground from the course. This is no different from a club making the car park, clubhouse terrace,  or practice putting green OOB, and plenty of clubs do that.

The practice ground is not part of the golf course. Therefore it is Out of Bounds.

A true internal OOB between adjacent holes is almost always horrible, but sometimes unavoidable on older courses which were not built with health and safety principally in mind...

[Jon Wiggett]

Duncan,

as far as I am aware, it is up to the club to decide if the practice ground is part of the course or not. It is also not unusual for clubs without a formal practice area to define an area of the course (such as along the side of a hole) to be used as a practice area and when used as such a competitor would not be considered to have practiced on the course. At Hoylake for me, the OOB is more about strategy of the hole though I could be wrong.

Jon

[Sean_A]

Having played Hoylake several times, was I misinformed that the practice range in the middle of the course marked by white stakes, right of the 1st fw and right of the 16th fwy, was to be played as OB?


As I recall Darwin wrote an essay criticizing courses with "interior out of bounds" and referenced Holylake.



Bob

Why would you assume that a practice ground should be part of the course?  IMO a practice ground is just that, not part of the golf course.  Though I have seen some courses where the PG is not OOB, notably at Little Aston. It make some time to identify your ball


Ciao

[Duncan Cheslett]

At Hoylake for me, the OOB is more about strategy of the hole though I could be wrong.

Jon

Of course, the OOB impinges further into the 16th hole (18th in The Open)  than it really needs to, thereby having a strategic influence on the hole, but it still doesn't constitute an internal OOB because it is directly adjacent to the practice ground which is not part of the golf course.

The same situation exists on the 1st  (3rd in The Open)

I've played several courses where the practice ground is separated from an adjacent fairway by OOB. A good example is the 16th at Disley in Cheshire.



The tee shot is directly over the practice ground, which is Out of Bounds. Under no stretch of the imagination however, could this be construed as being an internal OOB. The only real difference with Hoylake is that there this situation pertains on BOTH sides of the practice ground.

[Dan Delaney 🐮]

Internal OB?

NEVER. EVER. EVER.

The worst application of RoG in the history of the game.

[Adrian_Stiff]

Yes, is the simple answer to the question. If it makes other's safe.

[/size][size=78%]Not all golf courses are perfect. Safety is always a prime issue and out of bounds 'white staking' can be considered a reasonable method of mitigating a good part of the problem.[/size]


It is up to the club to decide if the practice ground is OOB.

[jeffwarne]

Never say never
It's formulaic.
While no one is a fan of interior OB, there are of course situations where it would be palatable.
An ancient burial ground for example.
It's no different than the 4 foot gorse lining MANY otherwise good courses after all

[Paul Jones]

We have the same issue, 18th Hole is a sharp dogleg right.  Everyone would try to drive it over the trees and ending landing on the 10th tee box. 

[BCrosby]

"Why would you assume that a practice ground should be part of the course?"

Because that is the way it is played on almost all courses I am familiar with, including Peachtree, East Lake, Cherokee,  the Driving Club and Ansley (Town) here in ATL. The old practice ground at ANGC between the 8/9th and 18th was not played as OOB. (The practice ground is now at the other side of the clubhouse.)

Darwin thought the p.g. was "part" of the Hoylake course, hence his criticism as to its artificiality.

Bob



 

[Joe Bausch]

Yes, is the simple answer to the question. If it makes other's safe.

Agree.

There is a club in Delaware where internal OB is needed to protect golfers on another hole.

In an ideal world it would be not needed.  Last time I heard, we don't live in an ideal world.   

[archie_struthers]

 




No good design would want to include interior out of bounds .  Remember the "Hinkle Tree" .


Wildwood CC in our neck of the woods built two new holes where the obvious play on a par five is to play it down the other fairway. It's generally believed to be awful . There have been some disagreements over players who use this strategy , so they made it OB.  Now they have OB right and interior OB left , it's bad .

Come to think of it , one of my favorite courses in Florida has it , Indian Creek CC.  They have a wonderful internal practice area which is OB .  Compared to most I have seen it is fairly innocuous.

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