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Paul Gray

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One Hit Wonders
« on: September 04, 2015, 05:20:56 AM »
Something Ryan Coles wrote got me thinking.......
 
There are many fine courses in the world designed by architects who are otherwise unheralded. Perhaps one of the particular charms of such courses is that they have a style and quality all of their own, the architect in question not otherwise having left a familiar footprint anywhere else in the collective consciousness of GCA.
 
What other one hit wonders come to mind?
« Last Edit: September 04, 2015, 08:18:51 AM by Paul Gray »
In the places where golf cuts through pretension and elitism, it thrives and will continue to thrive because the simple virtues of the game and its attendant culture are allowed to be most apparent. - Tim Gavrich

Dave McCollum

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Best One Hit Wonders
« Reply #1 on: September 04, 2015, 06:54:02 AM »
I don’t know much about one hit wonders.  However, I’ve always been fascinated by guys who tried to build their dream course or the best of their era/location.  Especially amateurs who were doing it as a labor of love (or madness) rather than a starting point for an anticipated career as an architect.  Examples such as George Crump at Pine Valley, Hugh Wilson at Merion, Henry Fownes at Oakmont, and I’m sure many others.  Isn’t that the ultimate fantasy for every golfer who wonders what makes for great golf, why one course is better than another, and, to some degree, developing an intellectual and creative interest in the game beyond simply playing it as well as that golfer can?  Or possibly the next step for one who loves the game and has to face their limitations as a player.  It’s one thing to sit around designing holes in a notebook and quite another to put together the resources to put 18 holes in the dirt.   

I’ve never investigated this obsession, but speculate that it is more common than we acknowledge and that it may be a significant factor in exploring “one hit wonders."

Rick Emerson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: One Hit Wonders
« Reply #2 on: September 04, 2015, 08:38:38 AM »
Don't all of us on this site besides those who are actual architects secretly wish we could come into some money and have the right connections so we could try to be the next George Crump or Hugh Wilson. Or even just be involved in the process in some way. I would also like to say that unlike George Crump I want to build my dream course, have it be financially lucrative and then live many more years to enjoy my creation.

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: One Hit Wonders
« Reply #3 on: September 04, 2015, 08:46:38 AM »
I no more want to build my own course than I want to build my own plane.

Nigel Islam

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: One Hit Wonders
« Reply #4 on: September 04, 2015, 10:18:09 AM »
I no more want to build my own course than I want to build my own plane.


Crash and Burn, eh Mav?

JJShanley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: One Hit Wonders
« Reply #5 on: September 04, 2015, 10:36:57 AM »
Don't all of us on this site besides those who are actual architects secretly wish we could come into some money and have the right connections so we could try to be the next George Crump or Hugh Wilson. Or even just be involved in the process in some way. I would also like to say that unlike George Crump I want to build my dream course, have it be financially lucrative and then live many more years to enjoy my creation.


If I won the powerball (I don't even play) I'd probably do the decent thing about ask Mr. Doak or C&C to design the course.  Or do the properly decent thing and have them each build a course.  Why faff about when you have folk who can do it properly? 

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: One Hit Wonders
« Reply #6 on: September 04, 2015, 12:00:10 PM »
Rick,
 
I used to think that I wanted to design and build my own course, until I spent a few years on GCA.com as well as played a few courses built by quote on quote on amateurs.  As much as I think I could do something interesting, I no longer hold that delusion and realize I'd probably screw it up.
 
The model I would like to follow is something akin to what Mr. Keiser did at Bandon where he had final approval of sorts on a hole before it was finalized.  However the one difference I would do is let the architect have free reign on building wild/unconventional/quirky holes.  My course probably wouldn't be anywhere near the top 100, but at least it would have some damn interesting holes...

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: One Hit Wonders
« Reply #7 on: September 04, 2015, 12:20:58 PM »
Did Neville and Grant do much before/after Pebble Beach?
Atb

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: One Hit Wonders
« Reply #8 on: September 04, 2015, 07:10:57 PM »
Did Neville and Grant do much before/after Pebble Beach?
Atb


Jack Neville designed nine of the holes at Pacific Grove Muni, 5 miles from Pebble Beach.


However, like most of the other so-called "one-hit wonders," he gets a bit more credit for Pebble than he deserves.  Neville and Grant's original course didn't have the 8th green, the 9th green, or the 18th green in the same locations they are today, for starters.


Likewise, George Crump had some help at the beginning from Harry Colt and during the process from his friends who included A.W. Tillinghast and George Thomas ...


I do agree with the premise of the thread that it's interesting to see a course designed by someone whose work is unfamiliar and who may not have built much else.  One of my great finds in the past few years was Himalayan G.C. in Nepal, built by a retired army major.  Next week I'm going to Alaska to see a course built by someone I've never heard of.  It might be a complete waste of time, but chances are there is something different to see there, which I'm less likely to find on yet another course by a familiar name.

Howard Riefs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: One Hit Wonders
« Reply #9 on: September 04, 2015, 07:31:37 PM »
Sankaty Head GC was Emerson Armstrong's one and only design.
"Golf combines two favorite American pastimes: Taking long walks and hitting things with a stick."  ~P.J. O'Rourke

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: One Hit Wonders
« Reply #10 on: September 04, 2015, 07:52:56 PM »
Did Neville and Grant do much before/after Pebble Beach?
Atb


Jack Neville designed nine of the holes at Pacific Grove Muni, 5 miles from Pebble Beach.


However, like most of the other so-called "one-hit wonders," he gets a bit more credit for Pebble than he deserves.  Neville and Grant's original course didn't have the 8th green, the 9th green, or the 18th green in the same locations they are today, for starters.


Likewise, George Crump had some help at the beginning from Harry Colt and during the process from his friends who included A.W. Tillinghast and George Thomas ...


I do agree with the premise of the thread that it's interesting to see a course designed by someone whose work is unfamiliar and who may not have built much else.  One of my great finds in the past few years was Himalayan G.C. in Nepal, built by a retired army major.  Next week I'm going to Alaska to see a course built by someone I've never heard of.  It might be a complete waste of time, but chances are there is something different to see there, which I'm less likely to find on yet another course by a familiar name.


Tom, who is credited with the incredible figure 8 routing of Pebble Beach?   To me that's the genius of that place.  Imagine how much better Spyglass could have been with an inspired routing!

Rick Emerson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: One Hit Wonders
« Reply #11 on: September 04, 2015, 08:06:14 PM »
Rick,
 
I used to think that I wanted to design and build my own course, until I spent a few years on GCA.com as well as played a few courses built by quote on quote on amateurs.  As much as I think I could do something interesting, I no longer hold that delusion and realize I'd probably screw it up.
 
The model I would like to follow is something akin to what Mr. Keiser did at Bandon where he had final approval of sorts on a hole before it was finalized.  However the one difference I would do is let the architect have free reign on building wild/unconventional/quirky holes.  My course probably wouldn't be anywhere near the top 100, but at least it would have some damn interesting holes...
I agree with you. That's why I wrote the be involved with the process part. I almost added be involved with the process like Mike Keiser. I think it would be fun to just be a part of a really good team and give imput like a Geoff shackleford or a George Bahto. I guess I have to be a writer, a foremost authority on a particular architect, or a wealthy entrepreneur before I can get that gig.

Tim_Weiman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: One Hit Wonders
« Reply #12 on: September 04, 2015, 10:15:38 PM »
Paul,


If we are going to discuss one hit wonders, perhaps we should keep some perspective and acknowledge there are also one hit blunders.


As a courtesy, I won't even mention the course, but a while back I met a guy who inherited $20 million and decided to build a golf course. He also decided he could build a golf course as well as any architect alive today.


Well, he did buy a piece of land, design and build a course. Moreover, he was convinced he had built a really great course - easily top 100.


In truth, some of the work was really bad. Awful actually and so bad it included what I thought was the worse Par 5 or maybe even golf hole I had ever seen.


Not everyone has the sense of George Crump or Hugh Wilson.
Tim Weiman

Steve Wilson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: One Hit Wonders
« Reply #13 on: September 04, 2015, 11:52:22 PM »
If someone was to design only one course, then that person should be able to escape the criticism of being repetitious.  Unless, there was a lot of repetition within a single course, and then it becomes a one hit blunder?


Seriously though, I think there are a lot of posters on here who, given a sufficient budget and a good piece of land, could come up with a good course.  And one of the reasons I think that is they have seen a lot of great holes and could fit them together.  Original work is another matter and I think that is where the true test of architecture comes in. 


Anyone, literally anyone, can take a great picture, but it takes a true photographer to take a lot of great pictures.  I think the same applies to one hit wonders.  Anyone can build a great hole, but it takes talent to build a good course, and tremendous talent to build a lot of great courses.   
Some days you play golf, some days you find things.

I'm not really registered, but I couldn't find a symbol for certifiable.

"Every good drive by a high handicapper will be punished..."  Garland Bailey at the BUDA in sharing with me what the better player should always remember.

Duncan Cheslett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: One Hit Wonders
« Reply #14 on: September 04, 2015, 11:59:19 PM »
A couple of my favourites;

Royal St Davids GC (Harlech)                                    The Hon. Harold Finch-Hatton and William Henry More.

North Manchester GC                                                Herbert Townley and Archie Compston


Harlech was laid out on a whim one day after a meeting between two strangers in the dunes - one of whom (Finch-Hatton) was practising his boomerang skills after returning from a trip to Australia.

Finch-Hatton's Wikipedia entry makes no mention of his GCA "career".  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_Finch-Hatton  .   More remained at Harlech and was club secretary for many years.


North Manchester GC had engaged James Braid to design their new course after they bought a new site in 1923 but for some unrecorded reason he became unavailable. Member Townley and club pro Compston stepped into the breach and did a fine job.

Compston was quite the celebrity golfer in his day but there is no suggestion that he ever got involved in course design again. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archie_Compston

Here's his early tuition vid however! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2pcJGMLHKw   Watch for the technique on playing stymies towards the end!

And the man in action:  http://www.britishpathe.com/video/the-great-golf-match

« Last Edit: September 05, 2015, 12:38:40 AM by Duncan Cheslett »

Ed Brzezowski

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: One Hit Wonders
« Reply #15 on: September 05, 2015, 04:32:30 PM »
Did Neville and Grant do much before/after Pebble Beach?
Atb


Jack Neville designed nine of the holes at Pacific Grove Muni, 5 miles from Pebble Beach.


However, like most of the other so-called "one-hit wonders," he gets a bit more credit for Pebble than he deserves.  Neville and Grant's original course didn't have the 8th green, the 9th green, or the 18th green in the same locations they are today, for starters.


Likewise, George Crump had some help at the beginning from Harry Colt and during the process from his friends who included A.W. Tillinghast and George Thomas ...


I do agree with the premise of the thread that it's interesting to see a course designed by someone whose work is unfamiliar and who may not have built much else.  One of my great finds in the past few years was Himalayan G.C. in Nepal, built by a retired army major.  Next week I'm going to Alaska to see a course built by someone I've never heard of.  It might be a complete waste of time, but chances are there is something different to see there, which I'm less likely to find on yet another course by a familiar name.


Tom I thought George Thomas was one and done? Whitemarsh Valley and what else?
We have a pool and a pond, the pond would be good for you.

Michael Blake

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: One Hit Wonders
« Reply #16 on: September 05, 2015, 08:02:35 PM »
Did Neville and Grant do much before/after Pebble Beach?
Atb


Jack Neville designed nine of the holes at Pacific Grove Muni, 5 miles from Pebble Beach.


However, like most of the other so-called "one-hit wonders," he gets a bit more credit for Pebble than he deserves.  Neville and Grant's original course didn't have the 8th green, the 9th green, or the 18th green in the same locations they are today, for starters.


Likewise, George Crump had some help at the beginning from Harry Colt and during the process from his friends who included A.W. Tillinghast and George Thomas ...


I do agree with the premise of the thread that it's interesting to see a course designed by someone whose work is unfamiliar and who may not have built much else.  One of my great finds in the past few years was Himalayan G.C. in Nepal, built by a retired army major.  Next week I'm going to Alaska to see a course built by someone I've never heard of.  It might be a complete waste of time, but chances are there is something different to see there, which I'm less likely to find on yet another course by a familiar name.


Tom I thought George Thomas was one and done? Whitemarsh Valley and what else?

Riviera & LACC North as well as others.

Ed Brzezowski

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: One Hit Wonders
« Reply #17 on: September 05, 2015, 09:01:24 PM »
I keep forgetting those foreign courses
We have a pool and a pond, the pond would be good for you.

BCrosby

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: One Hit Wonders
« Reply #18 on: September 06, 2015, 07:42:43 AM »
Robert Tyre Jones, Jr.

Brad Tufts

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: One Hit Wonders
« Reply #19 on: September 06, 2015, 09:57:12 AM »
Pikewood National?

Not sure it fits though, as I dont think the designers never planned on doing anything else, so it was a planned one-hitter.
So I jump ship in Hong Kong....

Bob_Huntley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: One Hit Wonders
« Reply #20 on: September 06, 2015, 11:18:31 AM »
I no more want to build my own course than I want to build my own plane.

Plus 1

Mark_Rowlinson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: One Hit Wonders
« Reply #21 on: September 07, 2015, 05:14:40 AM »
Sandy Lodge, James Francis Markes. Harry Vardon is frequently credited with designing this course, but it became clear when researching for the Sandy Lodge centenary book that Vardon gave helpful advice but Markes did the design (including routing, drainage plans etc) and supervised construction.

Mark_Rowlinson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: One Hit Wonders
« Reply #22 on: September 07, 2015, 01:00:16 PM »
Another that comes to mind is CH Mayo who designed Thetford Golf Club. It has been partially rebuilt in comparatively recent years, but it's a fine Breckland course (good winter golf) and may be quieter since the closing of RAF Mildenhall (though Lakenheath is still open....). Does anybody know more about Mayo? He's not mentioned by Cornish and Whitten.

Paul Gray

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: One Hit Wonders
« Reply #23 on: September 07, 2015, 01:38:19 PM »
http://www.thetfordgolfclub.co.uk/index.php
 
No real knowledge of the course but first impressions are good. James Briad does get a mention though. Actually, I was working on a contract in East Anglia last year and Thetford, had it of been a bit nearer to Ipswich, would have been high on my list of evening venues. I think the whole area might well contain the only real hidden gems left in the country. Purdis Heath and Woodbridge were good enough to keep me sane post work!  ;D
In the places where golf cuts through pretension and elitism, it thrives and will continue to thrive because the simple virtues of the game and its attendant culture are allowed to be most apparent. - Tim Gavrich

Richard Fisher

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: One Hit Wonders
« Reply #24 on: September 07, 2015, 02:28:47 PM »
Liphook? Wasn't this very largely the work of Arthur Croome, sometime Radley schoolmaster, former Gloucestershire team-mate of WG Grace, and a very early member of the O&C GS?