[Carl Johnson]

I've learned all about how rankings are done, so naturally I don't take them seriously.  However, regarding North Carolina: http://www.golfdigest.com/story/north-carolina-best-in-state-rankings- - -

The only new course on the list, at 21, is Trump National GC Charlotte (which is actually in a far northern suburb of Charlotte, Mooresville, home to major NASCAR businesses).  Before it went bankrupt, as many newer residential development courses have, and was purchased by DT, it was called The Pointe (I do think it had an "e" on the end).  Although there have been some changes to the course, I cannot believe it would have jumped this high but for the Trump name.  I've never played it, but those who have say it's nothing special.  I do not know what course got bumped (or should that be "Trumped").  Anyone with more knowledge of the course than I have?

[Tommy Williamsen]

I've learned all about how rankings are done, so naturally I don't take them seriously.

What the heck does that mean?

[Bruce Wellmon]

Trump Charlotte does have the best finishing hole in N.C.
Or we could discuss that the same rankings has Linville Ridge above Linville GC. 

[hhuffines]

How does Champion Hills retain its position?

[Carl Johnson]

I've learned all about how rankings are done, so naturally I don't take them seriously.

What the heck does that mean?

Sorry, that's another subject for another day (for me).

[Carl Johnson]

Trump Charlotte does have the best finishing hole in N.C.
Or we could discuss that the same rankings has Linville Ridge above Linville GC. 

Bruce, I've played both Linville GC (many, many times) and Linville Ridge (once).  We could discuss that, but as I said above, I'm not sure about getting into the rankings issues generally.  Personally, and that's just it, Linville GC is so far superior to Linville Ridge that it's not even worth discussing.

[Carl Johnson]

Trump Charlotte does have the best finishing hole in N.C.

Bruce, Why do you say that?  What's "best" about it?  Not a challenge to you, but I've never seen or played TN-Charlotte, so I have no idea what the finishing hole or other holes at Trump National Charlotte may be about.

(Edit, follow-up: I just took a look at the hole club's website and on Google maps satellite view.  18 is a par four with a carry over a corner of the lake on your tee ball and then another carry over another corner on your shot to the green.  Lake along your right side of the fairway.  Per the card, 466 from the back tees and 291 from the front.  Personally, I would not find this an attractive finishing hole for recreational golf -- but then again, I've never played it so I'd reserve judgment.

(Here's the official website description of the hole: "A fabulous finishing hole, the 18th has it all: length, hazards, a zoysia walled bunker and beautiful backdrop. Lake Norman flanks the right and guards the front of the green, so a drive in the fairway is a necessity in order to clear the water and reach the green. A par here is always a good score."  I wonder if the entire course is zoysia -- couldn't find that on the website.)

Thanks, Carl

[Ryan Farrow]

I like Dormie as the #2 Public (should probably be higher overall)


I do not like Tobacco Road in the top 25 (I'm surprised to see it on a GD list)


I can't fathom how Mid Pines is left off of this list.

[Niall C]

I think the point of this thread was that the Trump logo had made an otherwise OK course jump a good bit higher up the rankings than it should. Any comment on that ?


Niall

[Matt MacIver]

I've played The course twice, once as The Pointe and once as Trump Natl CLT. Greg Norman originally designed it, and I think it's a good layout with some interesting tee and second shots. A few decent par 5s too.  I don't recall the greens being anything special, and since I like wild greens maybe I mean their not.


I think Trump poured a lot of money into the clubhouse when he bought the facility but I'm not sure if any went in to the course; that said I'm not sure more money would materially move the needle, so if the ranking has indeed risen it's got to be because of marketing, I.e. Trump.


I liked the 18th hole, fair and fun. I wouldn't have said it's the best in the state but I can't I immediately come up with several better - Quail Hollow and Carolina CC locally come to mind.

[Mark Pritchett]

You had me at Trump.

[Carl Johnson]

I think the point of this thread was that the Trump logo had made an otherwise OK course jump a good bit higher up the rankings than it should. Any comment on that ?

Niall

Niall, yes, that was my point.  Carl

[Mark Pritchett]

I think the point of this thread was that the Trump logo had made an otherwise OK course jump a good bit higher up the rankings than it should. Any comment on that ?

Niall

Niall, yes, that was my point.  Carl

Or perhaps the Trump name got some raters to visit the course and Gasp! they actually liked it. 

[Bruce Wellmon]

I thought it was a very stout hole. The bunker left certainly made you think. Water right. Forced carry to the green. Very difficult with a great view of Lake Norman looking to the right. (If Diamond Creek ever reverses the nines like they should, then my vote changes).

[Andrew Buck]

I need to spend more time in North Carolina if Mid Pines and Pine Needles can't crack the top 25.

[jim_lewis]

Bruce:


That photo sure looks a lot like #15 on Forest Creek North.

[cary lichtenstein]

a thread designed to disparge Trump

[Shane Wright]

I like Dormie as the #2 Public (should probably be higher overall)


I do not like Tobacco Road in the top 25 (I'm surprised to see it on a GD list)


I can't fathom how Mid Pines is left off of this list.

I played Mid Pines last Friday.  If there are 25 better golf courses in North Carolina, plan on seeing me as the starting point guard for the Cleveland Cavaliers this year, or pitching game 1 for the Dodgers in the playoffs.  To say the restorative work is great would be an enormous understatement.  I'm not sure how someone could even critique the course off the top 25 in North Carolina.

[Carl Johnson]

a thread designed to disparge Trump

Cary, my thinking was not to disparage Trump (he doesn't need that from me), but rather to raise a question about the rating process.  Sure, as suggested above, maybe the name did draw raters who "found" the hidden Norman gem.  But then that says something about the ratings process, too, does it not?

Carl

[Carl Johnson]

I need to spend more time in North Carolina if Mid Pines and Pine Needles can't crack the top 25.

Pine Needles is on the list at no. 18, down from 17.  However, Mid Pines is not in the top 25.

[David_Madison]

It's crazy that Mid-Pines isn't on the list. It's possible that its final score is lower because old evaluations are weighing things down, as ratings scores are counted for 5+ years. The rational thing would of course be to discard all of the pre-restoration scores since the course is so different from before. Any GD raters out there know if they did this?

[Ryan Farrow]

It's crazy that Mid-Pines isn't on the list. It's possible that its final score is lower because old evaluations are weighing things down, as ratings scores are counted for 5+ years. The rational thing would of course be to discard all of the pre-restoration scores since the course is so different from before. Any GD raters out there know if they did this?

Visually the course is different but it still has the same great bones. If the GD raters couldn't see that before the restoration, well...

[BCowan]

Guys,

Don't take these lists seriously.  Look at michigan for a good laugh.  UM isn't top 25 and franklin hills is around 15th, lol

[David_Madison]

Ryan,


The changes at Mid-Pines are far more extensive than just visual, but maybe from a rater's perspective that's all they could see and therefore the course was essentially the same thing. Sure the bones are the same, but the course plays completely differently.


For what it's worth, Golfweek tossed the pre-restoration scores at #2 and I believe at Mid-Pines and Old Town as well. You could say the same thing about these three courses, that their bones were the same pre and post-restoration, but nobody would say that these courses were efffectively the same thing or offered even remotely the same playing experience pre and post.

[Philip Hensley]

If Knight's Play in Apex isn't on this list then I just can't take it seriously.

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