Does Poppy Hills have the potential to be

[Patrick_Mucci]

a very good golf course without changing the routing ?


It seems that the bones are there, but that the individual holes are ...... Mundane

[David_Tepper]

http://www.ncga.org/2014/03/03/catching-poppy-hills-renovation-one-post/

[astavrides]

a very good golf course without changing the routing ?


It seems that the bones are there, but that the individual holes are ...... Mundane

What do you mean by 'bones'? If you mean sandcapping and ocean views and generally a nice setting, I agree, those are useful bones.
I haven't played it since the renovation, but how could you change the individual holes given what is there now?
 

[Jim Hoak]

Pat, I think I reported a year or so ago, that I played it a couple of times and thought it was improved by the renovation.  It looks like the last 13 holes of Spyglass.
But someone asked me the question--"Is it still the 7th best course of the 7 in Pebble Beach?"  And I had to say, "Probably yes."
I don't think much more can be done to make it better.  It definitely improved from where it was.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Pat, I think I reported a year or so ago, that I played it a couple of times and thought it was improved by the renovation.
 
I never had the opportunity to play it pre-renovation
 
It looks like the last 13 holes of Spyglass.

We commented on the similarity
 
But someone asked me the question--"Is it still the 7th best course of the 7 in Pebble Beach?"  And I had to say, "Probably yes."

I don't think much more can be done to make it better. 
It definitely improved from where it was.
 
It just seemed........ mundane, lacking in any outstanding features.
 
The only hole that seemed to have outstanding features was # 12.
The bunkering scheme on # 12 was a departure from the bunkering schemes on all the other holes.
 
The bunkers on # 12 were present on both sides of the fairway, whereas all of the other holes seemed to confine the bunkering to one side of the fairway.
 
It seemed like the course was in the need of "distinct" features.
 
I don't know if it was a money issue or a drive-by design, but, something seemed lacking on a site that seemed to have far more potential.
 
Astavrides,
 
By "bones" I mean the general routing.
 
To answer your question about change, one just has to look down the road, to MPCC Dunes, where Fazio is keeping the basic routing, but to all appearances, changing the body of almost every hole.
 
Poppy Hills, like Tokatee seems to have great potential for improvement.

[MClutterbuck]

Pat, I think I reported a year or so ago, that I played it a couple of times and thought it was improved by the renovation.  It looks like the last 13 holes of Spyglass.
But someone asked me the question--"Is it still the 7th best course of the 7 in Pebble Beach?"  And I had to say, "Probably yes."
I don't think much more can be done to make it better.  It definitely improved from where it was.

At same price I would play the new Poppy Hills 8-2 against Spanish Bay.

[Gary Sato]

a very good golf course without changing the routing ?


It seems that the bones are there, but that the individual holes are ...... Mundane

Someone said, "to be a great course you need great holes".  Most of the holes at Poppy are as you said, mundane.


With that said, it's been a great success.  Most NCGA members pay the $45 (or whatever it is) and have a great time. 

[Patrick_Mucci]

Gary,
 
The fellow in front of us was playing with his young son, who had a very nice swing.
 
He told us that the green fee for his young son was $ 5.
 
You can't beat that.
 
Still, I think the course has the potential to vastly improve itself.

[Kyle Henderson]

The centerline bunkers now in play on #9 are quite interesting and also a departure from the rest of the course, in a very good way.

Frankly, the firm conditions make the course worth the NCGA member price of admission. Most of the peninsula courses play on the soggy side...

Overall, I think the new Poppy Hills is close on the heels of Spyglass in terms of its ability to offer a compelling and enjoyable round, and is available at a third of the price.

[Tom_Doak]

I think the course has the potential to vastly improve itself.

Seems like they missed their window, since they just spent millions of dollars completely renovating it a year or two ago. 

[Peter Pallotta]

Patrick -- not to sidetrack this, but it strikes me that you are very familiar with Garden City, a golf course that was not blessed with an ideal (or even perhaps a very good) site but that has been a perennial top 50 course because of Travis' thoughtful renovation of Emmet's original layout (and presumably good 'bones'), mostly in terms of new bunkering schemes and green contours.

Is this what you mean by PH also having "potential"?

Peter   

[Patrick_Mucci]

Peter,

Travis's "renovation" (?) of GCGC isn't what elevates GCGC.

Emmett's original course wasn't chopped liver.

Like Tokatee, I believe that a creative architect could retain the current routing and significantly enhance the current course.

I never played the old Poppy Hills, so I can't compare the old and the current course.

Other than a few holes, the course seemed bland, lacking in memorable features.


I certainly wasn't impressed by the fairway bunkering, with # 12 being the significant exception.

Patrick -- not to sidetrack this, but it strikes me that you are very familiar with Garden City, a golf course that was not blessed with an ideal (or even perhaps a very good) site but that has been a perennial top 50 course because of Travis' thoughtful renovation of Emmet's original layout (and presumably good 'bones'), mostly in terms of new bunkering schemes and green contours.

Is this what you mean by PH also having "potential"?

Peter

[Patrick_Mucci]

I think the course has the potential to vastly improve itself.

Tom,

Money alone doesn't necessarily solve problems or shortcomings.

What will be interesting on the Monterey Peninsula is Fazio's product at MPCC Dunes, a $ 12,000,000 project that will retaining the basic routing.

I can't imagine how you can spend $ 12,000,000 while retaining the basic routing, but I do believe that irrigation and sand capping could account for a significant portion of the budget


Seems like they missed their window, since they just spent millions of dollars completely renovating it a year or two ago.

[David_Tepper]

"What will be interesting on the Monterey Peninsula is Fazio's product at MPCC Dunes, a $ 12,000,000 project that will retaining the basic routing."

Regarding the MPCC Dunes Course renovation, there is some question as to who is doing the GCA design work. The firm of Jackson-Kahn (possible former members of the Fazio team) appears to be involved in the project.

http://www.jacksonkahndesign.com/mpcc.html