Walker Cup: Lytham St Annes

[Ryan Coles]

GB&I in association with Adidas and sponsored by Rolex won comfortably.

RND's Jimmy Mullen went 4-0.

Feherty is Irish again for this week.

[David_Tepper]

Based on what I have been reading, it appears that it is now the USGA's policy to include 2 mid-ams on the U.S. Walker Cup team regardless of their ability relative to the other players available.

[Josh Tarble]

David,
I know you're not rallying against it or anything, but I really like that move on the USGA's part.  It would be extremely easy to pick the 12 best college golfers in a year and go with that.  It rewards the "weekend warriors" that still have the game to compete at an extremely high level, yet chose not to try their hands on the mini-tours.  For an event that has nothing riding on it besides pride and experience I think that's pretty cool.

[jeffwarne]

David,
I know you're not rallying against it or anything, but I really like that move on the USGA's part.  It would be extremely easy to pick the 12 best college golfers in a year and go with that.  It rewards the "weekend warriors" that still have the game to compete at an extremely high level, yet chose not to try their hands on the mini-tours.  For an event that has nothing riding on it besides pride and experience I think that's pretty cool.

Josh.
While I agree with your sentiment, history has shown most successful midams were far better than "mini tour players" some with actual success on the PGA tour.
It's a nice symbolic move by the USGA but let's not kid ourselves that midams never turned or tried pro

[Ryan Coles]

I'm not sure where future captains will come from. They all turn pro. GB&I are running out. Talk of allowing pro's to captain if the captain is to be a former player.

The Americans seemed very likeable this year. Perfect gentleman. Not sure if that had anything to do with the result but there seemed very little spikeyness. No horschell or Kim type character who can thrive on such an environment.

[David_Tepper]

Very interesting (from the GB&I point of view) podcast on the Walker Cup with Lawrence Donegan & John Huggan that was recorded last week, before the event. The guest is Dean Robertson, former Walker Cupper, Euro Tour winner and now golf coach at Stirling University.

http://hwcdn.libsyn.com/p/4/c/6/4c6d17e6f6de9e76/ByTheMinGolf_Podcast_43.mp3?c_id=9798183&expiration=1442354443&hwt=62dea34841a1e3097b10c9461503412b

[ward peyronnin]

My limited observations from being on the ground both days because I could only watch so many matches:

Torrential rain Saturday morning Course very soft and rough thick from previous rain; had to avoid
Non prevailing wind both morning for foursomes and shifting for afternoons but really minimal sunday; bad mojo between yanks partners evolved so did they have a clue how to perform in this format?
Wasn't terribly impressed with facilities and retail  and some other obligations hosting for R&A vs USGA venues
Captains made a big difference: DesChambeux in the hole sunday ludicrous; poor course management by Yanks of a course where bunkering; blind approaches demands it; they looked lost out there. and on the greens as well i was so sick of watching yanks except DesCh gag 10+/- putts that i wondered what the hell they didn't do to prepare( not sure a Capt can make players make putts but this was ridiculous and these greens are very different over here)
I can justify with what I watched saying the yanks LOST the cup as much as G,B&I won. Didn't see a turrible lot of great golf out  there except for Mullins short game magic; more lots of poor decisions and shite putting  losing holes.

[Jeff Fortson]

Based on what I have been reading, it appears that it is now the USGA's policy to include 2 mid-ams on the U.S. Walker Cup team regardless of their ability relative to the other players available.

This is true.  Although I could make numerous arguments suggesting that the WAGR is biased heavily in favor of collegiate players (maybe rightfully so, but biased nonetheless). Let us also remember that at the NGLA Walker Cup two years ago that both White and Smith were the two consecutive points in Sunday singles that clinched the victory for the United States.


[quote author=Josh Tarble link=topic=61670.msg1467133#msg1467133 date=1442326369]David,
I know you're not rallying against it or anything, but I really like that move on the USGA's part.  It would be extremely easy to pick the 12 best college golfers in a year and go with that.  It rewards the "weekend warriors" that still have the game to compete at an extremely high level, yet chose not to try their hands on the mini-tours.  For an event that has nothing riding on it besides pride and experience I think that's pretty cool.



Couple quick comments...


This is splitting hairs but the Walker Cup teams only have 10 players, not 12.  It's an easy mistake to make as the Ryder Cup and other big international matches have 12 players per team. While I'm not 100% certain on the backgrounds of the last few mid-ams to play in the Walker Cup re: potentially having been reinstated amateurs, there are many mid-ams that are reinstated and did try to play professionally at some point. It wouldn't surprise me to see a reinstated amateur make the team at some point if one hasn't already made the team.


I think it's a wonderful thing that the USGA has decided to include two mid-ams on the team. Making it publicly known that this was their plan moving forward a few years ago may have put some added pressure on the mid-ams that make the team potentially. Everyone seems to think that is what lost this year's matches. I disagree. How about we got outplayed and didn't putt as well?  Outside DeChambeau and Hossler no one played particularly well for the USA.  We lost in the UK four years ago with only Nathan Smith representing the mid-ams.  Was it all his fault too?  I don't know, the fact is the GB&I team played better. Were there two deserving collegiate players that could have played in place of the mid-ams?  Sure.  Would that have made a difference?  Maybe, but doubtful to turn it into a victory for the US.  I think people need to take a step back and get off the pile and let both Mike McCoy and Scott Harvey breathe. They represented our country with class and are two exceptional golfers.

[David_Tepper]

Jeff F. and Josh T. -

I was making no judgement on the USGA's policy of including 2 mid-ams on the Walker Cup team. I was simply confirming what the policy is.

It would not bother me in the least if a professional golfer served as a team captain for either the US or GB&I teams, just as long as he had once played in the Walker Cup.

DT 

[Jeff Fortson]

Jeff F. and Josh T. -

I was making no judgement on the USGA's policy of including 2 mid-ams on the Walker Cup team. I was simply confirming what the policy is.

DT

Got it. Look at my response as addressing what you're reading.

[Michael Whitaker]

Wardo - I have to agree with you about the poor decision making. I was so frustrated with the shite decisions I had to turn off the broadcast. I saw so many stupid plays... trying to drive short par fours, for example that had a 1 in 10 chance of success at best. In every case I witnessed the USA team would try some heroic shot and it would wind up costing them the hole and, ultimately, the match. There was no evidence of strategic play. As you say, the GB&I team didn't really win the matches as much as the USA team gave them away with sorry play. The All-English team was outstanding and those guys would have beaten just about anyone, but the rest just had to stay out of trouble and watch the Americans implode.

[ward peyronnin]

One other observation. St Anne's is a very fine course especially the middle holes. But so much of the play there is dictated by endless gruesome  bunkers set directly in line of play and everywhere else that i confess the course does not qualify for that ultimate arbiter to me.

That is of course "Is it a course i could play everday?" Just don't think I could take the inevitable nasty  multiple bunker shots on a weekly basis.

[Richard Fisher]

Obviously a British response to the weekend's events is going to be a bit different! Good to see so many friends at Lytham, which I think turned out to be a much better and more atmospheric Walker Cup venue than some had feared: it was an unusual, slightly political and eyebrow-raising choice when announced (and don't forget that the WC is going back to the North-West in 2019 for the 150th anniversary of the Royal Liverpool Golf Club), but Saturday afternoon's excitement and Sunday's weather both contributed to a cracking weekend overall. Personally, I emerged with a much, much stronger sense of the excellence of Lytham as a test than at (say) the 2012 Open: it's striking how much of a course's challenge gets effectively hidden by the spectator facilities of a major championship.

As for the British team, Captain Edwards played another blinder: he has now been on two winning Walker Cup teams as a player, and two as a captain. Annual experience of the Lytham Trophy (one of our two or three premier 72 hole strokeplay events, along with the Brabazon and the Links Trophy) surely helped our side, and it can't be coincidental that the one player on either side side with a 4 from 4 record, Jimmy Mullen, has the great good fortune to play his regular golf at RND Westward Ho! Whilst I take Ward's point about the softening rain, this didn't make course management choices any easier, and on the whole the Brits did this (much) better. For once (and in stark contrast to Walker Cups of the past) the Brits also putted better throughout. Incidentally, GCAers with an interest in the history of the game might like to check out the Pathe News website, where there is a good deal of newsreel footage of pre-war matches, showing (inter alia) some proper stymies!

Anyway, the weekend left me looking forward to the LA Country Club, Hoylake, and Seminole as a truly enticing trio of upcoming venues, in keeping with an event which is for me the most enjoyable fixture in all elite golf, and (by a mile) the best spectator proposition.

[Thomas Dai]

........it's striking how much of a course's challenge gets effectively hidden by the spectator facilities of a major championship

A very valid point Richard, plus less grandstands/scoreboards to get free drops from, less spectators to help find wayward shots, less worn paths in the rough to find a nice lie etc etc.


Atb

[Pete Lavallee]

That is of course "Is it a course i could play everday?" Just don't think I could take the inevitable nasty  multiple bunker shots on a weekly basis.

Funny, the wife was ecstatic that during our first round she was miraculously missing all those bunkers, she had only been in 2 all day going into 17! She ended up with 3 more for a total of 5 for the and was quite proud of herself, I hit it pretty good and landed in 7.


Before teeing off the second day I asked the guy in front of us if he had ever had a bunker free round and he though for a moment and said: " you know I've been a member here for over 40 years and I've never done it !" The greens are maddenly subtle with tiny variations all over the place, there are precious few greens there where the slope is obvious.

[jkinney]

I was part of the LACC contingent at Lytham and was very impressed by the course after walking it Friday. I became more so each day.  The victory by GB&I did not surprise me, as I'd watched both teams on the practice field on Friday and come away thinking that the GB&I players simply looked more solid. Why it became a rout boiled down to three factors, IMO;


                                             - GB&I were better around the greens (the exact opposite from NGLA in '13)
                                             - USA were spending way too much time figuring the type of shot to hit
                                                (most evident in the foursomes) and never seemed comfortable.
                                             - The GB&I team chemistry seemed far better overall.


Only Hossler & DeChambeau escape the above criticism. They were right there on every shot and never missed a beat.

[Jon Wiggett]

One other observation. St Anne's is a very fine course especially the middle holes. But so much of the play there is dictated by endless gruesome  bunkers set directly in line of play and everywhere else that i confess the course does not qualify for that ultimate arbiter to me.

That is of course "Is it a course i could play everday?" Just don't think I could take the inevitable nasty  multiple bunker shots on a weekly basis.

Ward,

I presume you mean L& St. A as there is an excellent links just up the road which is St.Annes. I agree the course could lose a good many bunkers on the periphery but the ones in the line of play are what make the course so good. Having played it on numerous occasion I would have no problem playing it day in day out. It is a course you have to think your way round in order to get a decent score.

Jon