Golf documentary?

[BHoover]

I'm a big history nerd and a fan of Ken Burns, particularly his films on The Civil War (which, by the way, has been re-mastered and is returning to PBS in early September), The War, The National Parks, The Roosevelts, and Baseball, which I recently watched again.

Are there any similar documentaries about the history of golf? It seems like a natural subject for this type of documentary--the architecture, the players, the social aspects (positive and negative), the tournaments, etc.

[RJ_Daley]

Brian, I had been calling or hoping for such a documetary, similar to his Baseball series for at least 15 or more years on GCA.com.  I don't know how many times more knowledgeable folk offer 100 reasons why it can't or won't be done. 

I was most charged up about the idea when they were building the Prairie Club and Doak DR.  I felt like they ought to see if one of those draft horse associations that like to put on demonstrations of the work the draft horses did back in the day, ought to be offered a chance to organize some scoop and pan implements filmed footage of them scraping and shaping some golf land features and incorporate that into the story line.  It seems to me that there is as much OR MORE documents, letters, old photos, and certainly on both continents to easily have material equal to the "Baseball" documentary. 

Tell me again why it can't be done.... I nominate Doak to oversee it!!!     Burns film company is Florentine and Doak's is Renaissance.  Seems right to me....

[Ryan Hillenbrand]

The documentary on the 1960 US Open at Cherry Hills, especially how it profiled the differences in upbringing between Hogan, Palmer and Nicklaus as it related to era, was pretty good I thought.

[BHoover]

The documentary on the 1960 US Open at Cherry Hills, especially how it profiled the differences in upbringing between Hogan, Palmer and Nicklaus as it related to era, was pretty good I thought.

Yes, that was a good one. So was the documentary about Arnold vs. Jack at Oakmont in 1962.

But I think golf would be a perfect fit for a Ken Burns-style documentary. Someone just needs to make it.

[Jeff Fortson]

I'm a big history nerd and a fan of Ken Burns, particularly his films on The Civil War (which, by the way, has been re-mastered and is returning to PBS in early September), The War, The National Parks, The Roosevelts, and Baseball, which I recently watched again.

Are there any similar documentaries about the history of golf? It seems like a natural subject for this type of documentary--the architecture, the players, the social aspects (positive and negative), the tournaments, etc.

What an amazing idea!  I had never considered this. 

[Jon Cavalier]

Brian: count me among the many that think this is a great idea and would absolutely love to see it.

[Matthew Sander]

I agree that this game is ideal for presentation in the Burns' style. I imagine the intended audience would just be too small...I would be part of it though.

[BCowan]

I think Peter Kesler would be great at this.  He did some very good short documentaries on a regular basis back when the Golf channel used to be good. 

[Phil Young]

The single obstacle to the making of a documentary of any type or length on golf isn't the subject or the potential market size... its the funding.

If its funded it will be made and shown...

[RJ_Daley]

I am not sure of his situation, but doesn't the esteemed signore Pallotta have something to do with arts programing for the CBC?  He surely has the soul and writing talent to put a production script together.  A public broadcasting arena with a big money foundation seems to be the path to fund it.  Burns had to promote his idea before he proved his talent.  Why not another film maker and documentary producer?  I honestly feel that such a properly done docu would do more to "grow the game" than all the other schemes the USGA and PGA have tried over the years. 

[Ally Mcintosh]

I'm a big history nerd and a fan of Ken Burns, particularly his films on The Civil War (which, by the way, has been re-mastered and is returning to PBS in early September), The War, The National Parks, The Roosevelts, and Baseball, which I recently watched again.

Are there any similar documentaries about the history of golf? It seems like a natural subject for this type of documentary--the architecture, the players, the social aspects (positive and negative), the tournaments, etc.

There was a recent 3 hour documentary on the history of Irish golf that - apart from a saccharine voiceover by Aidan Quinn - was actually full of real historians and great footage telling the story. A lot of info on early courses with some great old film of Irish links courses from the Victirian era and just after.

[BHoover]

 There was a recent 3 hour documentary on the history of Irish golf that - apart from a saccharine voiceover by Aidan Quinn - was actually full of real historians and great footage telling the story. A lot of info on early courses with some great old film of Irish links courses from the Victirian era and just after.

Do you know where I can find this documentary?

[Ally Mcintosh]

 There was a recent 3 hour documentary on the history of Irish golf that - apart from a saccharine voiceover by Aidan Quinn - was actually full of real historians and great footage telling the story. A lot of info on early courses with some great old film of Irish links courses from the Victirian era and just after.

Do you know where I can find this documentary?

I am unsure if it has seen release outside of its TV broadcast but this may give you some info to search for it:
 
http://www.historyireland.com/blog/23-25-september-new-tv-history-irish-golf/

[Matt Frey, PGA]

A few years ago, PBS ran a documentary called "Golf's Grand Design." I found it interesting, but much too condensed to be fully satisfying.

[BHoover]

A few years ago, PBS ran a documentary called "Golf's Grand Design." I found it interesting, but much too condensed to be fully satisfying.

Yes, I had the same reaction to that piece too. There are other films, such as Golf Channel's three-part series on Arnold Palmer and the 1960 U.S. Open film.

Ideally, I'd like to see a comprehensive documentary that explores the history of the game and its impact on society and culture (again, I think Ken Burns' Baseball film is the best example). I doubt it will happen, but one can dream.

[Phil McDade]

Ideally, I'd like to see a comprehensive documentary that explores the history of the game and its impact on society and culture (again, I think Ken Burns' Baseball film is the best example). I doubt it will happen, but one can dream.

I'd agree; one of things that makes Burns' documentaries so fun to watch is his focus on individual stories -- the Baseball one is full of short pieces on the odd and interesting players who have popped up through the ages. The individuals behind the creation of various national parks also made for fascinating viewing. Many of those stories in golf might be familiar to us, but I would think they might have a broader audience -- interviewing Kevin Cook, for instance (the author of "Tommy's Honor"), or tracing the odd career of Moe Norman, or Trevino's rise from hustling guys in Dallas to winning the U.S. Open a few years later.


Is golf any more "nichey" than jazz?

[Peter Pallotta]

Thanks for the kind words, RJ. I did write television documentaries for many years, but that was many years ago. There is no reason why this can't be done -- but as others have suggested, and like a great golf course, it would need both a special/unique client (producer/broadcaster) and a special/unique architect (writer/director).

Interesting to me thinking about it is not the particulars (e.g. Trevino, Hogan-Snead-Nelson, Nicklaus, Woods etc) but the through-line. If it is going to be 6 or 8 hours long, a "Ken Burns' Jazz" sort of thing, then like Burns' work it needs a viable and engaging over-arching narrative. (And not everyone, especially not the experts, agreed that Burns picks the correct ones).  In "jazz" for example, the through-line/overarching narrative is Louis Armstrong, born with this American music itself on July 4, 1900 in New Orleans, and a constant figure for the next 70 years. In "baseball", Burns' used civil rights and integration as that narrative, i.e. the game as reflection of American society. If you listen to the voice over on both those, and examine how the series are constructed, you can see that everything else follows from this fundamental choice of the central narrative.

I'm not sure what the equivalent would be for "golf", but off the top of my head my bias too would be for a sociological throughline: the "arc" from shepherds on links lands through to Old Tom and the British upper class, through to the migration to the new world/America and the establishment of its own golfing nobility with CBM and Crump and Jones etc, and then the blending with true American life, and the poverty of the depression and the Hogan/caddy/in the dirt era, and then the further democratization of the game (and its courses) through RTJ and Arnold Palmer, and its stolid/establishment/middle class values and appearance-- the game unchanged through the Vietnam years and Nixon -- and then finally the integration leading up to Woods winning the Masters. Everything else (including gca) and everyone else could then be slotted in.
 
Peter

You can already imagine some of the first few minutes, over photos/videos of the great courses and great players, you would have snippets of interviews with some of old golfers and sportswriters etc, and you'd hear someone say "What golf meant to me was redemption. It didn't matter where I was  born or what wrongs I had done: there was only the game now, and this golf course, and this day. On every shot, on every hole, I could redeem myself over again, I could start again and re-create myself all over again. In golf, the only thing they judge you on is how low you score. There's truth in that, and justice. And I think every man in his soul wants to believe in justice"





 


 

[Cob Carlson]

Well guys, if you haven't seen, or don't own my recent documentary "DONALD ROSS: Discovering the Legend" you need to purchase the DVD asap.

The film is 2 hours long, plus you get another 35 minutes of bonus scenes. Stars off with an intro, then the next thirty minutes is classic documentary style on Ross the man. The next hour is on his legacy...the courses he built, where he built them, his design characteristics, his impact on the history of golf in America...staggering! Then there is 15 minutes on Pinehurst #2, and I wrap it up with an epilogue.

Everyone who has watched the film says they have learned something. Within the film are images of some of the giants of the game...Bobby Jones, Byron Nelson, Ben Hogan, Gary Player, Betsey Rawls, Annika Sorenstam, just to name a few. Interviews include Ben Crenshaw, Jack Nicklaus, Tom Doak, Bradley S. Klein, Kyle Franz, Rees Jones, Jim Dodson, Mike Davis, Chris Buie, Ran Morrisett, Dunlop White, and more.

I, too, watched "Golf's Grand Design" and found it much like a thinned 5 iron. Ross was only given a few minutes of screen time.

There was a History of Golf documentary that was broadcast years ago on WGBH here in Boston, and the producers tried to do way too much within the span of one hour. Evereything got short shrift.

Phil Young writes...


The single obstacle to the making of a documentary of any type or length on golf isn't the subject or the potential market size... its the funding.If its funded it will be made and shown..
[/size][/color]
[font='open sans', 'helvetica neue', helvetica, arial, sans-serif][/size]Funding is a HUGE hurdle.[/font]
[/font][/color]
[/size]I tried for six months to raise the $$$ to make the Ross film. Hit up all the golf ball and club manufacturers, sportswear companies, mowing equipment companies, seed companies, Ross courses, etc. I was only able to raise $32,000 on a projected $250,000 budget (low by industry norms). Called in favors, used my wits, and spent my own money over the course of 18 months to make the film. I haven't even paid myself $5 an hour for my time investment. But I'm thrilled to have done it and am very proud of the finished film.[/color]
[/size][/color]
[/size]So, Atlasers, keep spreading the word (especially nudge pros and general managers at Ross courses and clubs for me...they have not been ordering) and keep buying DVDs as gifts.[/color]
[/size][/color]
[/size]Anyone want to fund my next golf doc? I'm all ears...[/color]
[/size][/color]
[/size]Cob[/color]
[/size]www.donaldrossfilm.com[/color]
[/size][/color]
[/size]https://vimeo.com/134267422[/size][/size][/font]
[/font][/color]
[/size]http://www.bostonglobe.com/arts/movies/2015/06/18/ross-looks-legendary-golf-course-designer/s6T5cZewEN2loXWnUfKK2M/story.html#[/color]
[/size][/color]
[/size]http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/07/03/after-victory-rob-oppenheim-eyes-pga-tour/HdFCa3ryH5xlsdZSiipPAJ/story.html[/size][/size][/font]
[/font][/color]
[/size]http://www.thepilot.com/news/new-documentary-details-the-life-of-donald-ross/article_e0690090-b930-11e4-a21c-[/b]eb1f9ce091d3.html[/b]
[/size][/font][/size]http://www.golfdigest.com/blogs/the-loop/2014/12/5-gifts-the-avid-golfer-wish-t.html[/size][/font]


http://www.donaldross.org/The-documentary-film-Donald-Ross

http://freshgolfreviews.com/

[Cob Carlson]

Trying this again to remedy the formatting and font issues...


Well guys, if you haven't seen, or don't own my recent documentary "DONALD ROSS: Discovering the Legend" you need to purchase the DVD asap.


The film is 2 hours long, plus you get another 35 minutes of bonus scenes. Stars off with an intro, then the next thirty minutes is classic documentary style on Ross the man. The next hour is on his legacy...the courses he built, where he built them, his design characteristics, his impact on the history of golf in America...staggering! Then there is 15 minutes on Pinehurst #2, and I wrap it up with an epilogue.


Everyone who has watched the film says they have learned something. Within the film are images of some of the giants of the game...Bobby Jones, Byron Nelson, Ben Hogan, Arnold Pamer, Claude Harmon, Gary Player, Betsey Rawls, Annika Sorenstam, just to name a few. Interviews include Ben Crenshaw, Jack Nicklaus, Tom Doak, Bradley S. Klein, Kyle Franz, Rees Jones, Jim Dodson, Mike Davis, Chris Buie, Ran Morrisett, Dunlop White, and more.


In a sneaky way, golf's history is intertwined with Donald Ross' story in the film.


I, too, watched "Golf's Grand Design" and found it much like a thinned 5 iron. Ross was only given a few minutes of screen time.


There was a History of Golf documentary that was broadcast years ago on WGBH here in Boston, and the producers tried to do way too much within the span of one hour. Evereything got short shrift.


Phil Young writes...




The single obstacle to the making of a documentary of any type or length on golf isn't the subject or the potential market size... its the funding.If its funded it will be made and shown..



Funding is a HUGE hurdle.



I tried for six months to raise the $$$ to make the Ross film. Hit up all the golf ball and club manufacturers, sportswear companies, mowing equipment companies, seed companies, Ross courses, etc. I was only able to raise $32,000 on a projected $250,000 budget (low by industry norms). Called in favors, used my wits, and spent my own money over the course of 18 months to make the film. I haven't even paid myself $5 an hour for my time investment. But I'm thrilled to have done it and am very proud of the finished film.So, Atlasers, keep spreading the word (especially nudge pros and general managers at Ross courses and clubs for me...they have not been ordering) and keep buying DVDs as gifts.


Anyone want to fund my next golf doc? I'm all ears...


Cob



[www.donaldrossfilm.com



https://vimeo.com/134267422


http://www.bostonglobe.com/arts/movies/2015/06/18/ross-looks-legendary-golf-course-designer/s6T5cZewEN2loXWnUfKK2M/story.html


http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/07/03/after-victory-rob-oppenheim-eyes-pga-tour/HdFCa3ryH5xlsdZSiipPAJ/story.html



http://www.thepilot.com/news/new-documentary-details-the-life-of-donald-ross/article_e0690090-b930-11e4-a21c-eb1f9ce091d3.html



http://www.golfdigest.com/blogs/the-loop/2014/12/5-gifts-the-avid-golfer-wish-t.html




http://www.donaldross.org/The-documentary-film-Donald-Ross


http://freshgolfreviews.com/

[Joel_Stewart]

Michael Robin did an excellent documentary on creating Old Macdonald.


 http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,50408.msg1151989.html#msg1151989

[BCowan]

Trying this again to remedy the formatting and font issues...


Well guys, if you haven't seen, or don't own my recent documentary "DONALD ROSS: Discovering the Legend" you need to purchase the DVD asap.


The film is 2 hours long, plus you get another 35 minutes of bonus scenes. Stars off with an intro, then the next thirty minutes is classic documentary style on Ross the man. The next hour is on his legacy...the courses he built, where he built them, his design characteristics, his impact on the history of golf in America...staggering! Then there is 15 minutes on Pinehurst #2, and I wrap it up with an epilogue.


Everyone who has watched the film says they have learned something. Within the film are images of some of the giants of the game...Bobby Jones, Byron Nelson, Ben Hogan, Arnold Pamer, Claude Harmon, Gary Player, Betsey Rawls, Annika Sorenstam, just to name a few. Interviews include Ben Crenshaw, Jack Nicklaus, Tom Doak, Bradley S. Klein, Kyle Franz, Rees Jones, Jim Dodson, Mike Davis, Chris Buie, Ran Morrisett, Dunlop White, and more.


In a sneaky way, golf's history is intertwined with Donald Ross' story in the film.


I, too, watched "Golf's Grand Design" and found it much like a thinned 5 iron. Ross was only given a few minutes of screen time.


There was a History of Golf documentary that was broadcast years ago on WGBH here in Boston, and the producers tried to do way too much within the span of one hour. Evereything got short shrift.


Phil Young writes...




The single obstacle to the making of a documentary of any type or length on golf isn't the subject or the potential market size... its the funding.If its funded it will be made and shown..



Funding is a HUGE hurdle.



I tried for six months to raise the $$$ to make the Ross film. Hit up all the golf ball and club manufacturers, sportswear companies, mowing equipment companies, seed companies, Ross courses, etc. I was only able to raise $32,000 on a projected $250,000 budget (low by industry norms). Called in favors, used my wits, and spent my own money over the course of 18 months to make the film. I haven't even paid myself $5 an hour for my time investment. But I'm thrilled to have done it and am very proud of the finished film.So, Atlasers, keep spreading the word (especially nudge pros and general managers at Ross courses and clubs for me...they have not been ordering) and keep buying DVDs as gifts.


Anyone want to fund my next golf doc? I'm all ears...


Cob



[www.donaldrossfilm.com



https://vimeo.com/134267422


http://www.bostonglobe.com/arts/movies/2015/06/18/ross-looks-legendary-golf-course-designer/s6T5cZewEN2loXWnUfKK2M/story.html


http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/07/03/after-victory-rob-oppenheim-eyes-pga-tour/HdFCa3ryH5xlsdZSiipPAJ/story.html



http://www.thepilot.com/news/new-documentary-details-the-life-of-donald-ross/article_e0690090-b930-11e4-a21c-eb1f9ce091d3.html



http://www.golfdigest.com/blogs/the-loop/2014/12/5-gifts-the-avid-golfer-wish-t.html




http://www.donaldross.org/The-documentary-film-Donald-Ross


http://freshgolfreviews.com/

Cob,

   Thank you so much for taking the time to do a wonderful Ross documentary.  Ross was truly a cultural icon and living proof of the American dream.  I am surprised that more on this forum don't have this real in depth documentary.  Christmas in July, Christmas, or any holiday is a great excuse to purchase this fine documentary for a friend or family.   

[RJ_Daley]

I ordered a DVD, and made e-mail contact with Cob.  Can't wait to plug it in and watch. 

[Steve Lang]

   All seriousness aside... Wasn't the ultimate golf documentary Caddyshack?

[Will Peterson]

I'm a big history nerd and a fan of Ken Burns, particularly his films on The Civil War (which, by the way, has been re-mastered and is returning to PBS in early September), The War, The National Parks, The Roosevelts, and Baseball, which I recently watched again.

Are there any similar documentaries about the history of golf? It seems like a natural subject for this type of documentary--the architecture, the players, the social aspects (positive and negative), the tournaments, etc.

Brian - a friend told me that he was at a speech given by Ken Burns.  During a Q&A, he asked Ken if he had considered doing a film on golf.  He was told "NO, there was no chance."


If this is true, it's too bad.  I think golf has such a great history that it could make a fine film.