Crystal Downs--slower greens' speeds

[Peter Pratt]

Made my annual pilgrimage to CD last week. Great as always--even better, frankly, because the greens were just a tad slower than in recent years. My host said that this was intentional. There'd been much grousing about too many impossible-to-stop putts. While I know this is as much a function of pin positions as it is speed, I did appreciate that I was above the hole on #1 and #11 and didn't have to hold my breath on 5-footers. Well, I held my breath--and missed both of them--but the ball did stop near the hole. Lest you worry that CD has lost its bite, there were several putts that wandered off greens among our foursome.

[Jim Hoak]

Slower greens are generally healthier greens too, as I understand it.  Better able to fight off diseases, nematodes, etc.  Within reason, slowing greens down a bit--especially on greens with significant issues on hole locations--is a plus.

[JStewart]

I've never made it out to CD, but to those who have played both how do the greens compare to Univ. of Michigan's? U-M generally keeps the speed average but they too have some crazy slopes and undulations and at higher stimps they'd be hard to putt.

[jeffwarne]

sanity strikes in the midwest

[Jud_T]

JS,


They are dramatically faster than U of M's, albeit with some similar slope to them.  Probably 1.5-2 feet faster on the stimp.

[BCowan]

I've never made it out to CD, but to those who have played both how do the greens compare to Univ. of Michigan's? U-M generally keeps the speed average but they too have some crazy slopes and undulations and at higher stimps they'd be hard to putt.

J,

    As of last year and this year, UofM rolls and sometimes double cuts Fri-Sun (greens can be 10-11).  On Mon-thur they slow them down and they are 8-9.  They get them faster on the weekends for the core regulars (market demand).  The greens still have a lot of grain in them so local knowledge helps. 

[Tim_Weiman]

Peter,


Thanks for this report. Much prefer this approach than tearing up and redoing greens.

[Peter Pratt]

I was told that CD's greens were 9-9.5 on the stimp. I must say that I've never found CD's greens to be super fast on flat putts. The issue, of course, is that there aren't many of those. What strikes me about the greens, based, admittedly, on only 7-8 plays, is that they are so difficult because you don't expect the ball to keep rolling and rolling--the slopes are often gradual but unrelenting and not humpy. Contrast Oakland Hills. I have never played a golf course in which the ball has moved more slowly, yet inexorably, off the greens than CD.

[JStewart]

I've never made it out to CD, but to those who have played both how do the greens compare to Univ. of Michigan's? U-M generally keeps the speed average but they too have some crazy slopes and undulations and at higher stimps they'd be hard to putt.

J,

    As of last year and this year, UofM rolls and sometimes double cuts Fri-Sun (greens can be 10-11).  On Mon-thur they slow them down and they are 8-9.  They get them faster on the weekends for the core regulars (market demand).  The greens still have a lot of grain in them so local knowledge helps.

I played there a ton in college when I went to UM and they were usually on the slower side. But the occasional day you caught them and they were firm and fast, look out. I know I've putt more than one right off No. 3 green.

[Jackson C]

I thought the UM greens were excellent.  Design and variety reminded me of CD and PD greens.
UM greens a good bit slower and grainier.  However, plenty of interest and fun.  They were also in very good condition early summer.
Overall, loved UM.
CD greens very very fast.  Good luck above the hole on 9, 11 and 14, to name just a few.

[Tom_Doak]

sanity strikes in the midwest

It may help that I'm their consultant now.  But, it also "helped" that the last two winters did a lot of damage, and we are babying the greens a bit to try and let them recover.  They were even slower last year.


They are still some of the most severe greens in the world.  I am not as familiar with the greens at U of M, but I would say there's no way the greens there are as severe as the Downs, contour-wise.  I've seen people putt off every green at the Downs, and I'm sure I've putted off more than half of them myself, at some point.  [Let's see ... 1, 3, 4, 5, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 17 ... yep.] 

[Brian_Sleeman]

Tom, between the two of us, the only hole not covered is Hole 7.  It's easy to putt off of 2, 6, and 18 when the hole is cut in front.  I think I've done it on all three of those holes a few times.


I can report that the greens were fairly quick this past Monday, and the golf course was bouncier and drier than I remember it the last few years.  It was an absolute blast as always.

[Mark Saltzman]

sanity strikes in the midwest

It may help that I'm their consultant now.  But, it also "helped" that the last two winters did a lot of damage, and we are babying the greens a bit to try and let them recover.  They were even slower last year.


They are still some of the most severe greens in the world.  I am not as familiar with the greens at U of M, but I would say there's no way the greens there are as severe as the Downs, contour-wise.  I've seen people putt off every green at the Downs, and I'm sure I've putted off more than half of them myself, at some point.  [Let's see ... 1, 3, 4, 5, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 17 ... yep.]

You haven't putted off 2? I've only played there once and even I have putted off 2!

[Jeff Bergeron]

I played in the invite there this year. Slightly slower greens speeds make it really good!