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William_G

  • Karma: +0/-0
CB... one course, a tough walk at best, close to Seattle and other Pacific Northwest beauty/beauties...agronomy unknown, LOL

WS...4 courses albeit spread out 2/2 with no lodging at WS, not close to much except farmland, Lawsonia is about an hour due west, Sand Valley is soon, excellent condition for a seasonal guy trip yet the average golfer would not enjoy WS due to its severe penal nature around the greens and fairways

both have merits and have great championship stories as well yet more to unfold at the Ryder Cup at WS

spectators and agronomy need to addressed at CB for it to get an encore in 10+ years

2 modern courses that are up for discussion

fun
It's all about the golf!

Joe Hellrung

  • Karma: +0/-0
I've done a guys trip at WS.  The accommodations at the American Club Resort are first class.  Good food, solid bar or two, and great options for staying on site.  True they aren't on the courses, but they are a great place to spend the afternoon after playing.  Plus it is all owned by Kohler, so you will have the best toilets and sinks you can imagine.   :)


As for the golf, I agree that the Straits course is too difficult to be enjoyed with a group of high handicappers.  For anyone that loves golf but isn't that good at it (like me), you come off the course feeling slightly abused.  That said, it is a gorgeous walk, and it is a lot of fun to watch it on TV after playing it. 


The Blackwolf Run courses are some of my favorites that I have played.  The irish course I could take or leave. 

Scott Weersing

  • Karma: +0/-0



I am not sure I would go to Whistling Straits instead of Bandon Dunes. Sure Whistling Straits is up there with the best of Bandon, Pacific Dunes, but then the other courses at WS do not match up with Old Mac, Bandon Trails, Bandon Dunes.


Sure it is easier to get to WS than to Bandon.

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Joe,


Did you do a guy trip at retail to WS in a group of four?  I've never been able to justify the cost with the other options available.  Was WS in anything close to tournament conditions, this also is a knock on almost all the public high cost tournament venues.  Did you ever feel like the American Club is better served for a husband/wife outing?  Was this a short drive for you and your buds?  Thanks, I only ask because it is strange that this outing never comes up in discussions on where to trip with the buds as opposed to Chambers where we all want to visit.


Of course WS as a corporate outing sounds perfect.

Matt Bielawa

  • Karma: +0/-0
I'd have to agree with JK on this one.  American Club is very nice, but I wouldn't consider it a very good cost/benefit for a guys trip, at least not one where you'd need to fly.  For a destination trip (one where you get there and essentially stay there), I'd rather take the $400+ I'd pay to play Straits and play Pac Dunes twice, have my drinks while getting my putting game exposed on the PunchBowl, stumble to my room, and do it again the next day.  All of the glitz and glam of the American Club will be lost on most guys trip, I'd think.  However, as JK suggests, if you're trying to impress a significant other with 5* accomodations, food, and courses where you can take carts, by all means, AC stands tall with against places like Kiawah and Greenbrier.

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
I agree that Whistling Straights isn't great value.  The spa is very good and the rooms are nice but the food is overpriced and not particularly good and frankly one could argue that the golf is overpriced and somewhat overrated.  Bandon is the best buddy resort place on the planet, followed by numerous GB&I locations (or Barnbougle?), then take your pick of Pinehurst, Streamsong, Cabot and Sand Valley (TBD).  Frankly I'd go to Myrtle Beach again before going back to the American Club.  Why anyone who isn't a local would go to CB instead of Bandon in that neck of the woods is something I can't quite fathom.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2015, 12:40:39 PM by Jud_T »
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Jason Thurman

  • Karma: +1/-0
Chambers Bay can barely even get a mention in most of these posts, likely because it just can't compete with Kohler. I'd love to play the course, but I would never consider a guys trip JUST to play it. The only way I'll ever tee off there is if I end up in Seattle for a bigger reason and work it into the trip.


Kohler costs way too much, but there are plenty of ways to reduce the hit to the wallet and for a group that doesn't mind the expense it makes for a great golf trip with a ton of variety. The Blackwolf Run courses deserve more credit than they've received in this thread - the complex has 27 great holes and another 9 that are perfect for someone playing with an inevitable morning hangover while on a trip to Wisconsin. Also, Milwaukee is just as close to Blackwolf Run as Seattle is to Chambers Bay, and might be the second most underrated city I've ever visited. I prefer beer and cheese over coffee and fish any day. This is not a discussion. I wouldn't be surprised if I played Chambers and found it to be my favorite course of the five in this conversation, but as a destination it can't hold a candle to Kohler.
"There will always be haters. That’s just the way it is. Hating dudes marry hating women and have hating ass kids." - Evan Turner

Some of y'all have never been called out in bold green font and it really shows.

Brent Carlson

  • Karma: +0/-0
These courses have entirely different feels.  I agree that Chambers is best played as a side trip when in Seattle.  It's not a resort type trip.  Golfers should enjoy it due to its unique firm and fast conditions.


Whistling Straits on the other hand feels completely different.  In contrast to CB it is much less urban.  When on the Straits course it is very peaceful.  I have not played the other courses but hear Blackwolf Run is very good.  As stated accommodation at the American Club is second to none.  Cost aside I cannot see anyone being disappointed in Whistling Straits.


Bandon is totally unique in the world.  I don't see how any resort can stack up to it in terms of pure golf.

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Chambers Bay isn't the only game in town in the Seattle area.
 
Gold Mountain is no slouch, as well as the Home Course.

William_G

  • Karma: +0/-0
My opinion is that if there was lodging at the Straits and the Irish...it would be a more desirable place for a buddy trip.

I think a second course at Chambers Bay is needed.

of course, neither place compares to Bandon
It's all about the golf!

BCrosby

  • Karma: +0/-0
We priced a long weekend at WS a couple of years ago. We figured that for less money we could fly to Edinburgh for the same number of days and play better golf courses.


Bob

cary lichtenstein

  • Karma: +0/-0
WS has better lodging, food and more to do in Shegoyan than Koler, also much easier to get to.


Bandon has minimalist housing


Both are great and both should be must stops on everyone's bucket list


Ditto with Pebble Beach and Spyglass
Live Jupiter, Fl, was  4 handicap, played top 100 US, top 75 World. Great memories, no longer play, 4 back surgeries. I don't miss a lot of things about golf, life is simpler with out it. I miss my 60 degree wedge shots, don't miss nasty weather, icing, back spasms. Last course I played was Augusta

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
My opinion is that if there was lodging at the Straits and the Irish...it would be a more desirable place for a buddy trip.

? It's a 10-15 minute ride in the courtesy van.  I wouldn't plan another buddy trip there, but this certainly isn't why.

Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Wayne Wiggins, Jr.

  • Karma: +0/-0
My opinion is that if there was lodging at the Straits and the Irish...it would be a more desirable place for a buddy trip.

I think a second course at Chambers Bay is needed.

of course, neither place compares to Bandon

Is there room for another course?  has there ever been mentioned before? 

Phil McDade

  • Karma: +0/-0
Saying there is more to do in Sheboygan than Kohler is like saying there is more to do in the panhandle of Texas than the panhandle of Oklahoma. (And does Sheboygan have a toilet museum that's free? No it does not! http://www.us.kohler.com/us/Kohler-Design-Center/content/CNT400038.htm)


Jason -- please help me by identifying the 27 "great" holes at Blackwolf Run.....I'm still looking for them.


(Also, I live 60 miles from Milwaukee, and have for 25+ years, and hardly ever go there except for my kid's swim meets. What's your most under-rated city?)


« Last Edit: August 22, 2015, 10:58:30 AM by Phil McDade »

Jason Thurman

  • Karma: +1/-0
Milwaukee's a whole lot more fun without kids. All of my favorite things in city are much tougher to do with them in tow, if not impossible. The art museum is wonderful, as is the Arts Performing Center. The Pabst is a great place to catch a concert. The riverwalk is lovely this time of year, and greatly improved by the new Ale Asylum Riverhouse. The bars on Water Street are fun for about an hour after a guys' day on the course, and the patios and overheard conversations from passers by are entertaining and relaxing after that. You can get front row seats to Bucks games and watch the world's most charming and bizarrely gifted basketball player for $35 on many nights of the year, and Brewers games are a great party with some of the world's friendliest people. Milwaukee is like a dirtier, grittier, seedier, tiny version of Chicago, but without all the cloying tourist-friendly spots. In keeping with the theme of this thread, it makes for a great base camp during a buddy trip, with the women and children locked away somewhere safe a few states away. Indianapolis gets my vote as most underrated city, but Milwaukee really speaks to the deep corners of my soul that are simultaneously dark, affable, in love with cheese, and prone to bouts of borderline alcoholism.


And we get it, Phil. You don't like the River course.
"There will always be haters. That’s just the way it is. Hating dudes marry hating women and have hating ass kids." - Evan Turner

Some of y'all have never been called out in bold green font and it really shows.

Terry Lavin

  • Karma: +0/-0



I am not sure I would go to Whistling Straits instead of Bandon Dunes. Sure Whistling Straits is up there with the best of Bandon, Pacific Dunes, but then the other courses at WS do not match up with Old Mac, Bandon Trails, Bandon Dunes.


Sure it is easier to get to WS than to Bandon.

I totally agree. I haven't been back to Kohler since my first Bandon trip, and I'm three hours away from Kohler. I've been back to Bandon six times.
Having said that, the Anerican Club is a terrific spot.
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken

Phil McDade

  • Karma: +0/-0

And we get it, Phil. You don't like the River course.


True, that, but our good friend William_G may not, and as he posted a legitimate topic on the merits of these courses, and since this website "exists to promote frank commentary on golf course architecture...."


Sheez, don't I get any credit for not posting on the "Tiger era officially dead" thread? ;D

William_G

  • Karma: +0/-0
My opinion is that if there was lodging at the Straits and the Irish...it would be a more desirable place for a buddy trip.

? It's a 10-15 minute ride in the courtesy van.  I wouldn't plan another buddy trip there, but this certainly isn't why.


20, but who's counting

the point is that if was a real lodge at Straits, it would be better, thanks though
It's all about the golf!

William_G

  • Karma: +0/-0
My opinion is that if there was lodging at the Straits and the Irish...it would be a more desirable place for a buddy trip.

I think a second course at Chambers Bay is needed.

of course, neither place compares to Bandon

Is there room for another course?  has there ever been mentioned before?

yes, but the public spaces so far have precluded that
It's all about the golf!

William_G

  • Karma: +0/-0
so we have Bent grass fairways and greens at WS

CB is struggling with fescue

Bandon is letting the Poa take over

Erin Hills, I think is still fescue

what grass used at Sand Valley?

agrogeekery
It's all about the golf!

Phil McDade

  • Karma: +0/-0
EHills is fescue -- and in the right conditions, that place is pretty zippy. I haven't been out there this year, but when it held the U.S. Am a few years ago, that place played about as fast-and-firm as any course I've seen (and I've seen quite a few overseas).


I believe Sand Valley is fescue, but not entirely sure; there are a few SValley threads on GCA with links to articles about the course that might provide more details. But I think the model of SValley was going to be very similar to Bandon -- on-site lodging, multiple courses, with an emphasis on walking and (presumably) a strong caddie program. The early photos I've seen look real promising; Keiser is basically aiming for the Pine Valley of the Midwest.

BCowan

I believe WS has fescue fairways